Chris Hedges On Contact, Palestinian and Israeli Hostilities

Video Transcript:

Welcome to On Contact. Today we will discuss the clashes between the Israelis and Palestinians with the Palestinian activist Dr. Sammy Paularian. We wait for every child when they die and for every man and woman when they are injured and when they are being targeted, but there is no other recourse. I mean the word has failed us, has betrayed the Palestinians for 28 years. They told the Palestinians come, recognize Israel and within five years you're going to have your rights in the West Bank and Gaza, 28 years later and it's even worse than it's ever been. So I think the Palestinians are no longer believe in such flawed processes. The United States has to step up to the play. It's as much responsible to the suffering of the Palestinians as Israelis are because they are enabling them to do what they want. They are financing them. They are giving them all the ammunition. Every bullet that Palestinians was shot off was made in the United States. Every plane was made in the United States. Every bomb was financed and imported and paid for and delivered to Israel by the United States and the United States has to come to realize that it is part of the problem and unless they do major correction, it's going to continue to suffer in this part of the world. People do not hate America because they are democracy or because of their freedom. People abhor the policies of the United States because it is not just they try to punish the Palestinians so that they can please the Israelis. Nearly all the words and phrases used by the Democrats for Republicans and the talking heads on the media to describe the unrest inside Israel and the heaviest Israeli assault against the Palestinians since the 2014 attacks on Gaza which lasted 51 days and killed more than 2,200 Palestinians including 551 children are alive. Israel by employing its military machine against an occupied population that does not have mechanized units and air force Navy missiles heavy artillery and command and control not to mention a US commitment to provide $38 billion in defense aid to Israel over the next decade is not exercising the right to defend itself. It is carrying out mass murder. It is a war crime. Israel has made it clear. It is ready to destroy and kill as wantonly now as it was in 2014. Israel's defense minister Benny Gantz who was the chief of staff during the murderous assault on Gaza in 2014 has vowed that if Hamas in his words does not stop the violence the strike of 2021 will be harder and more painful than that of 2014. These current attacks have already targeted residential high rises including the obliteration of a dozen international and local news agencies government buildings roads public facilities agricultural lands two schools and a mosque. Joining me to discuss the conflict is the Palestinian political activist Dr. Sami Al-Aryan director of the Center for Islamic and Global Affairs in Istanbul. So Sami let's talk about what's happening. There is a kind of pattern where the Israelis will call it moaning the lawn where the Palestinians erupt. Israel uses draconian overwhelming force to inflict heavy civilian casualties and we should add destroy infrastructure which is then not repaired making life even more difficult especially in places in Gaza. Is this a repetition of that pattern? First it's great to be with you Chris. Well we have to put what's happening today in the occupied territories particularly in Gaza and Jerusalem in the context. This thing didn't happen in vacuum they didn't happen just overnight. For several weeks the Israelis have been trying to affect Palestinians from their homes that they lived for over 50 years in the southern injurislim across very close to the al-Aqsa mosque and then in addition in the holiest month of the year for Muslims in injurislim where thousands since a thousands go and trade at the al-Aqsa mosque one of the holiest shrines in Islam in the history of the Islamic world and they tried to impose new restrictions on people going into al-Aqsa mosque impaying and then they were trying to impose a demonstration on what they called Jerusalem day by bringing thousands of settlers inside al-Haram inside the holiest shrine while people are praying and when people resisted that and they refused and rejected these assaults then they came in force fully equipped in military style invasions and they bombed using tear gas and using clubs and using rubber bullets hundreds of Palestinians in a way to intimidate them and in the words of the police chief in order to us to ascertain who is dominant who is in charge here so it was all intimidations and with the attempt to judge the eyes, judge eyes, Jerusalem in the archivariate, Jerusalem and try to evict Palestinians there was of course an outrage and a response and that response escalated to what we are seeing today in Gaza including obviously the bombing of major areas or residential in Gaza and the response by the resistance groups by sending rockets across the Palestinian areas that were amplified in 48. But how is this different from 2014 if it is because there is this belief within the Israeli military that you pound the Palestinians especially in Gaza into submission they're quiet for a while they rise up you pound them again the wholesale violence is quite massive on the day that the Trump administration moved the embassy from Tel Aviv the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem again a violation of international law I think there were 60 Palestinians shot dead in protest on that very day not a word from the administration are we just seeing the pattern or is this new? No it's a pattern certainly it happened in 2008-2009 2012-2014 and and now we're seeing it today as well and of course this theory of moving the loan or getting a haircut has been popularized by this famous saying of the Israeli general in which they think that whenever the resistance movements get strength in terms of their ability to strike at Israel they have to come and pound them and to teach them in lesson but I think to this time there was also a massive response from the other side hundreds of rockets rained on Israeli cities as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and all areas in between Ashutud Askalan and the many settlements around Gaza so it's not it's not free ride as it used to be I mean we remember you remember you covered the 1982 and Gaza in Lebanon invasion of Israel and and how the Lebanese were weren't able to deter Israel today is it doesn't dare to strike at Lebanon because of the resistance in South Lebanon and now the strength of Hezbollah and I think what's happening is similar obviously with the vast difference that the Gaza is much closer and much weaker but at the same time today there are there are more rockets and more devastating impact of the use of these rockets than it used to be in 2014 and I think as long as this won't continue to bleed and unless and you know as long as occupation continues these kind of clashes are inevitable and I don't think I think the Palestinians have taught the Israelis the lesson that regardless of the pounding regardless of the suffering they insist on resisting and restoring the rights and I don't think they're going to succeed in fact today you can see with this massive military militarized state where they I mean you you enumerated the power they have the military they've got the assistance they have the diplomatic cover they got from the United States yet they are today still suffering I mean this massive balance of power difference between the Palestinians and Israel and yet they still had to head fighting the Palestinians have most of the suffering for sure but I think they are also teaching the Israelis lesson that when people are determined to resist and determined to get back their rights they don't give up and eventually they will get them back there are two things that struck me as different from 2014 one obviously the range of the rockets that Hamas is firing they're also firing them in very large bursts which allows them to not to be shot down in the Israel's iron dome project the other thing of course is the unrest inside Israel among Israeli Palestinians in load and other places which did take place during the Antifadas but I'd like you to speak about that unrest inside the borders of Israel proper I think that's a major development in the conflict what Israel wanted to do for a long time and they were successful in some of these times is to divide the Palestinians into those who were occupied in 1948 what is called behind the green line in the Palestinians in the West Bank in Jerusalem in Gaza and of course in the diaspora and so you have five different communities and they're not united and they're not able to resist and then they can deal with each faction with each community separately what we see today is a major shift in that policy that the Palestinians inside the green light in the 1948 areas have erupted and have become part of resisting that colonial settler project called Israel today and what we see today I think have shaken the Israeli political establishment and I believe that there will be consequences for this Palestinians now see themselves as one people resisting this this project that is trying to depopulate them expel them from the land take their lands away steal it basically like what's happening in Sheikh Jarrah it's it's it's a pure stealing their their property and their position and I think that is going to have major consequences and I think it puts the international community in not just particularly the people in the United States I think people have seen now all the rules all the different narratives that they use against the Palestinians have now been exposed and uncovered and people see Israel for what it is it's a settler colonialist project in the heart of the Arab world in Palestine where they were trying to expel the Palestinians replace people and put someone else in their place and that hasn't succeeded because simply the Jews of the world today the overwhelming majority have not adhered to this call of the Zionist so they they stopped at six million where the Jews probably about 16 million around the world and Palestinians refused to leave even though 700,000 of them were kicked out in 1948 their descendants today number about seven million yet you also have the people the Palestinian people inside Palestine proper inside all of Palestine historic Palestine are more today than the Jews themselves that's a major problem for the for the for Israel what are you going to do with these people I mean either they will have to incorporate them in which the nature of the Zionist project will dissolve or they will have to impose an upper Thai Thai regime not only on Palestinian under occupation but also throughout because laws that are passed in the kinesis which is the Israel parliament are designed to give advantage privileges to Jews rather than Arabs so even if you're a citizen of the country you're not treated the same and this kind of a system is a bygone era this is what we used to fight back you know in the last century particularly in the 80s against upper tides of Africa and that's what's being what's happening today in Israel they try to to cover it and they try to to to make it sound that this is the only democracy in the Middle East but I think people know better now particularly the youth we see that this total rejection of this state today across the globe the only holding country right now probably would be the United States and not even the the whole United States just these political elites that are trying to argue what is has been arguing since its foundation that it's a democracy but that's a mockery of what actually what's actually happening on the ground great when we come back we'll continue our conversation about the dispute between the Palestinians and the Israelis with the Palestinian political activist Dr. Sami Al-Aran welcome back to on contact we continue our conversation about the disputes between the Palestinians and the Israelis with the Palestinian activist Dr. Sami Al-Aran so Sami I want to talk about a couple things I want to focus on this very right wing shift within the Israeli society something that I witnessed I first went to Israel lived in Jerusalem in the late 80s it's a very different country but before we talk about that the Biden administration has been completely toned of there's no daylight between the kinds of statements that Nancy Pelosi or the secretary of state are making about what's happening especially in Gaza and and the far right of the Republican party did that surprise you not at all I mean I've lived in the United States for four decades I've seen the stranglehold that Zionist organizations particularly its lobby groups have on politicians I experienced that firsthand when I was lobbying against the use of secret evidence in Congress within the administration so we understand all that yeah we see today that there is a crack major crack in that support yes the all these you know Biden Pelosi and others are still are still hostages basically to the Israeli lobby but there are many other politicians within Congress you know very few in the Senate much fewer in the Senate but also across the United States where this Israeli narrative has been exposed and been rejected and we see even within the Jewish communities a massive resistance to the Israeli narrative to this uh uh uh uh uh call that Israel is a democracy defending itself this is no longer really no longer people believe this if they have any kind of an objective reading what's actually happening on the ground what they are doing is simply supporting an apartheid like regime and history tells us that this is that you know this is not going to continue because people with no better particularly now with with the with the with the there is no monopoly of information anymore when I came to the United States in this it's 1975 and beyond there were only 30 minute of news at 630 you know ABC NBC CBS that is no longer the case people are getting their information now from everywhere 247 and I don't think you can hide what the what Israel is doing to the Palestinians anymore and if people would like to be on the side of of of of repression on the side of colonial settlers and on the on the side of people who actually target and murder children then be it but one day or another they have to be called into account and that's what's going to happen I mean we see today that even people within Congress that is unheard of who come on the holds of Congress in the well of the Congress and criticise Israeli behaviour and call them the administration to be even handed at least to call a spade spade and to talk about the the casualties and the killing of children by is right by by American bombs I mean that put that that makes America a couple of what's going on it's part of the problem not part of the solution and I think at one point or another the United States would be held to account and they would come and and correct that particular position on the issue of the Israeli right yes this has been going on since 1977 slowly but surely and now for the past 15 years or so we see that the Israeli right has now a total control of the Israeli body politic the only difference is that the within themselves it's either the right or the extreme right or the ultra right it's not true there is no center anymore there is no left anymore and that's why they cannot form a government because everybody is competing within that camp to become the next prime minister now they had four elections and they're probably going to end up with the fifth one because they can't decide who would be leading the Israeli right and the Israeli this road towards establishing greater Israel but I think they will have a surprise is that you know thinking that they have already settled the conflict by that and the Palestinians have given up and I think we're back now to square one where they see that there are all the different four lines within that society not only they can't form a government but they also cannot even have the Palestinians being totally dominated in a way that they can impose their will they can't impose their will anymore and I think the resistance is going to increase not decrease and I think within even the Israeli society today they have been determined response of the Palestinians and also the global support that is coming slowly against the practices of the Israeli army and the Israeli government towards the rights of the Palestinians. What has shocked me I first moved to Jerusalem in 1988 I knew Yitzhak Rabin covered him he was of course assassinated by a far right settler is the way the these right wing settlers what is about a half million of whom now live and occupied territory have really seized control along with the most retrograde elements the the former Koch party which was outlawed but has been resurrected in Atzma Yuhudit and then you have these right wing soccer hooligans and the lahava movement which calls for the total expulsion of all Palestinians inside Israel in the occupied territories to neighboring Arab states these have moved to the center of political power which was unthinkable before Rabin's assassination and and then of course we've now had 11 years of this with BB Netanyahu close ally of Trump as built relationships with other right wing governments in Brazil and Hungary and Poland and everywhere else but I think that that shift that political shift is important to note because when I lived in Israel the the peace movement whatever its faults was was vibrant and it's been extinguished virtually and that makes Israel in many ways a different country can you address that absolutely I mean what you see today is a manifestation obviously of 12 years of an attempt to impose Israel will own Palestinians and work towards greater Israel by bringing through a flawed process called Oslo settlements throughout the years when Oslo was signed back in 93 94 there were hardly 150,000 settlers inside the occupied territories particularly the West Bank and Jerusalem today the number over 800,000 including East Jerusalem which makes any kind of political settlement impossible now keep in mind that much of these settler movements have been financed directly by US extremist Jewish extremist particularly you know Sheldon Edelsen who died a few months ago who was actually the chief financier of these settlements around Jerusalem today the problem in Sheikh Jarrah which is a district in Jerusalem the claim that these buildings belong to a settler movement these these mid movements are being financed by extreme movements within the United States in the United States under you know I'm getting even tax free tax free status so the US has been part and part of this problem the extremist right has been part at the center of this and also the extreme the extremists in the in the United States you know those who actually finance both the lobbying in the US as well as the settlement movement in Palestine Israel now in terms of Israeli policies that they they are singing the same tune of Netanyahu and his right-wing groups Netanyahu has been empowered now for 12 years and he's quoted in 2001 right before he became a prime minister is that his main task is going to be to delay derail and make sure that peace is never can't does it does never succeed because his aim and and that's his quoted it's in the internet anybody can google it and hear him saying that in Hebrew but there are also there is English translation we said that he will make damn sure that there will be no settlement and that Israel will retain the the the the properties in in in in the West Bank in Jerusalem and throughout and now the fruition of this if you want to see the blueprint of how Netanyahu thinks all what you have to do is go and read the so called you know the century steal of the century I call it in which you know they were trying to impose their will on the Palestinians by creating pockets of cantoons in the in the in the were in the language of South Africa apartheid for Palestinians with tunnels and bridges and undergrounds in which Israel will have sovereignty throughout the policy and territories which is basically the total domination of one group over the other the classical definition of what colonialist settler project is that's what they are offering and the Palestinians refuse and resist and that's going to continue that's not going to stop and when the United States stops funding this attempt to impose a racial hierarchy in terms of Jewish supremacy the way white supremacists are trying to impose their will in the United States over other other races like blacks and Latinos and others this is what we are confronted with and this is what needs to be this is what the struggle is all about and I think the history is on the side of those who fight for justice and fight for equality I can't see I can't imagine that when the people when people in the United States get all the fact that they will side with Jewish supremacists or Zionists or Israelis are trying to impose their will and take all the land from the river to the sea I think the end result is going to be the dismantlement of such system that the ending of racial hierarchy the ending of a settler colloquialist project and eventually that's going to take a lot of suffering a lot of blood a lot of victims but that's the nature of sacrifices I mean we weep for every child when they die and for every man and woman when they are injured and when they are being targeted but there is no other recourse I mean the the world has failed us has betrayed the Palestinians for 28 years they told the Palestinians come recognize Israel and within five years you're going to have your rights in the West Bank and Gaza 28 years later and it's even worse than it's ever been so I think the Palestinians are no longer no longer believe in such flawed processes the United States has to step up to the play it's as much responsible to the suffering of the Palestinians as Israelis are because they are enabling them to do what they want they are financing them they are giving them all the ammunition every bullet that Palestinians was shot off was made in the United States every plane was made in the United States every bomb was was was was was finance and imported and paid for and delivered to Israel by the United States and and and the United States they it has to come to uh to realize that it is part of the problem and unless they do major correction it's going to continue to suffer in this part of the world people do not hate America because they of their democracy or because of of of of their freedom people uh abhor the policies of the United States because it is not just they try to punish the Palestinians so that they can please the Israelis well I remember being in Gaza after bombing strike and picking up fragments from a bomb and a piece of it had made in Dayton Ohio uh I think that you would agree that the moment the United States pulls the plug that's why I support the boycott divestment and sanctions movement that colonial settler project is not viable is that correct absolutely absolutely right I think this major part uh the you know if if Israel loses the support of the United States that will be the end of a project called apartheid Israel we're going to have a new phase in new era in which you could actually finally find peace in the Middle East because then uh Israel can no longer Israel that we know today as an aggressive uh apartheid racist settler colonial state will no longer be the case and I think that's when you actually could see a major difference but that's a big if because it needs a lot of struggle not only against that system in Palestine but also within the United States and that puts a lot of uh focus on the movements now coming in the US to ask for equality and to ask for the end of the support of of of America to to Israel whether it's through BDS or other means but the goal is clear and the goal is to end apartheid in Palestine Israel and to also to call for the full restoration of Palestinian rights after so much suffering great thank you that was Palestinian political activist dr. Salmi Alaria you