Epstein victim Maria Farmer full interview Pt 2

Video Transcript:

So, the question is, if you have a question, please, please, please, please, please, please. Thank you. There's a thing with this settlement. We'd be lucky, you know, if we get a couple hundred thousand dollars. Isn't that sickening? Honestly, I think the lien is still going now and that she's going to try to... I mean, I'm not... I'm making... And send it back to whoever funded this whole thing, whether it's Waxner or Moth or whatever. She is. Sick. Oh, she'll give... I can assure you that Waxner handles Gilan. And Gilan... I mean, sorry. Gilan answers to Waxner. I know that for a fact. So, you think she has more to... That's how I knew he was Waxner than me. I don't know. Like Israeli intelligence for her dad worked, right? Do you think she's more like under Waxner than... Right. No, I know she's in... I know she's in Israeli. Yeah, well Waxner is Israeli intelligence, 100%. And I believe that... I mean, that's the way it was just a sign... It was a sign that she would be under him. And I know that's where she got all of her funding to do this scam with Epstein. I know that. And they used Epstein. Epstein was like the dumb... I hated how they describe him as like this intellectual. Whitney was not smart. I mean, he was probably... I love he probably said that. He printed the time. Well, they say he wasn't like... How they built him up is like this smart billionaire guy. He was just like... Average Joe intelligence or something. I've heard that from a few people. Yeah, he was pretty average. Like, I was definitely more intelligent than him. I'm not kidding. And I mean, I could just tell. And I was around a lot of brilliant people at the time, like brilliant, just true brilliant people that were change makers in society. And he was not one of them. He was somebody though that was able to convince you that he was going... He was so charismatic. He could convince you that he could change the world for you in the next year. And it would be the most wonderful experience you would ever have. He could have run a cult. I'm not kidding you. He was that charismatic. And he, Lynn, was very charismatic too dangerously so. But once you got to know her, it all fell apart. And she was verbally violent and vicious. And physically violent and vicious. She would beat those Filipino maids. And the only reason I'm calling the Filipino... I don't know their names. And I know they were from the Philippines. But those women were precious. And they said that she hurt them physically. So she not only beat... She never did it to me. But man, she was verbally violent like I have never known. I mean, other than Eileen Guggenheim, the two of them are the most vicious bitches I've ever spoken to in my life. I mean, they could cut you down. And it was so morally devastating. You just felt useless as a human being when you were told you're nothing because you're not Jewish, you're stupid, you're useless. A useless white girl. A poor little peasant. I mean, just the things I was called, I was just like, I believed it. You know, because it was like a cult. And the only thing that woke me up when I was being assaulted somehow... Well, the whole time I was being assaulted, I was thinking, oh dear God, these people have been with my sister. Where is my sister? She's in Thailand. I don't think my sister... I thought she was dead. So I had that and then it hit me that they had taken my photographs somehow. I knew when I was being assaulted. Somehow I knew they were pedophiles. All of a sudden it hit me. Like everything made sense. All these just fit together. And I ran downstairs the morning after they left. And I was so too. And I had to touch everything so organized. I knew exactly which pictures were what. And the reason I went to the FBI was because they should have been put away for life for child pornography. It should have been the end of it, right there. Boom, that's it. And I had proof and they would never take my proof. No one would take the envelopes that I still have here. That my lawyers are going to take. And they're going to make them fingerprint. Because we know Guy Land. I know it was Guy Land that got the pictures. She... John Laine thinks Jeffrey was smart enough to know I would have hidden them. You know? And I had it. It was all locked. All my stuff was locked. And it was very well organized, which you wouldn't expect for an artist. So I had everything numbered and lettered. And so like they stole... They stole picture A3 and picture. And I was able to go through and know exactly which envelopes they were taking out of. And I called Jeffrey's office. And I said they are porn... They have stolen my art and made it into child pornography. And my reference pictures. And I want them back and they hung up on me. And then a girl from his office called me and said, he has those pictures in his briefcase. He's using them. And she hung up. And I had to know that like those are my sisters. Okay, so one of the pictures was my one sister who was 12. She was 12. And Annie was 15. And the two pictures she took of her. 15. And they were totally nude. And they were just like the kind of shots. And they would walk through the room and I would just take pictures. And then I would put clothes on them in the paintings. But I was studying the anatomy. And sometimes I would just have it be like really casual half-clothes, half... You know, studying anatomy. Then I never did that again. Because it was used against me in the biggest way ever. So... Oh, man. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. You know, they did a lot of damage. And the thing that really bothers me is... No, I just... It just hurts. It just hurts me to even get it. I can't imagine how this must have been for you. Oh my God. I am just... Well, the thing that's so gross is that the FBI is complicit. And they're still trying to make me into a liar. They're still trying to say that I never called them. And why did they come see me? Oh, this is the thing that will kill you. Vicki Ward tells people, she tells everyone when they call it. And she came to see her in 2006. Yeah, they came to see her in 2006 in the woods of North Carolina because I told them about her. She didn't talk to the FBI. She's just crazy. She's like another one of them. I'm like, wow, these elites really stick together. You cannot believe a word. She writes. And everything Vicki Ward writes is for her own accolades. She writes it to make her self-known. You know, she's mad at us and my family because she's trying to do a podcast. She got her gig at CNN because she promised them an exclusive on us. And she couldn't get it, so she pitched a fit. And I told CNN, I said, I would interview with you liars for all the T in China. I got to get back at everybody. Well, that must have been nice. Yeah. I'm like, I'm talking to Whitney Webb and David Eyte. I'm finished with liars. Sorry. Well, thanks. I appreciate that. I really do. I really am really humbled that you would trust me. I appreciate your work. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Whitney, I just appreciate all the work you're doing. We have no idea how appreciated you are. Like Edward Zollett, tour news. I mean, everyone I know that I've spoken to all the lawyers. Everyone's like, this girl is sharp as a tack. I mean, I sent your stuff to David Boyz and he was like, now this is a researcher. They're going to use your research in court. I mean, absolutely. Oh, that's amazing. It's going to be you. I mean, I sent, yeah. It's true. Yeah. So it's pretty, and they're even going to use one of Bobby's podcasts. He came, he like theorized on something and he was dead on. And they're like, oh, we're going to use that. Like, seriously, it helps us so much. Because no one's speaking out. You're the only one who cares about how it all began. That's what's so important. That's where it is. That's where it is. I mean, that's where the real story is. I mean, that's how you find out how extensive it is. That's the story. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, and it's all out of Israel. I'm going to tell you what Gielin told me about her dad. Because the eye knew her right after he died. Like, I think he'd only died like two years before. Right, and 91. She was constantly grieving for him, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. She was constantly still in grief. And Epstein, okay, so she would tell the story that her dad had Epstein protecting her. And I'm like, wait, what? This is weird. So she would say that Epstein was kind of assigned to her to take care of her because her dad, like right before her dad passed away. But her dad knew him. Right. I thought that was really strange. So I mean, I've heard this from my dad used to work with him. So anyway, Maxwell, or Robert Maxwell said that they had seen a guy that used to work for Israeli intelligence with Robert Maxwell told me that he had seen Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell's office in like the mid 80s. So that definitely goes back several years. Yeah, okay, you said that. That's right. I forgot about that. Anyway, it's true because they absolutely, Gielan's thing that she told me was that he was assigned like assigned to her to protect her because her dad had died. And I'm like, who assigned you? You know what I mean? Like, what does that mean? And when she was showing me pictures of her dad and crying over them, I had to go through, I had to sit with this bitch all the time and go through photo albums. I mean, I know her really well. And I know how she operates. And that's why I'm so afraid that she's still on the loose. And I know who's taking care of her. I know it is the Rothschild. I know it is. And I'll tell you how I know. Because Lady Rothschild is ready to kill me. Is this when you have a friend who has been forced to run the Rothschild? Is this when you're talking about? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Lin Forster. She's calling me a liar because she's saying that she's set... I saw Dersherwood coming in and out of the house. Yeah, she introduced up to her friends. She thinks it's not possible she claims that. She claims that anyway. Yeah, she did not. She did not. But she wants to think so. So their story is that she introduced them as a gift from Waxner. Because every year Waxner would give a gift to Epstein. And this year it was... He's such a wonderful gift Dersherwood. So she gave them as a gift. They already knew each other. So whatever. And I know they already knew each other because they knew each other through Barbara Guggenheim's husband, Bert Fields. Look into that. They already knew each other. Okay, so they were all connected somehow, like already. But anyway, if she said to me, she was assigned to me to protect me because my dad died. And I was like, I don't understand this. And I said, well, you know, what happened to your dad? And this is... I'll never forget this. So I'm going to curse or whatever. I'm using a gross word that Gielan used. She said, those cunts pushed him. And I thought she said off the baby Gielan. So for years I thought it was... But it was the lady Gielan. She said those cunts pushed him off of the baby Gielan. And I was like... I don't even know what that means. But okay, you know, I'm just looking through albums trying to be empathetic with my employer. You know, it was the most awkward time. And I'm like, okay, well, and then... So then she says to me, you know, my dad was a very powerful man. And, you know, he was very important. She said, Maria, you don't understand. And then she's showing me like who she grew up with and how powerful he was and how much money they had. And then she goes on to tell me. She said, you know, Maria, and this is true. She said, and she showed me. She had task force. I don't know how this is legal. She had a passport, a French passport, an English passport, an Israeli passport, an American passport, and there was one other. I'm trying to think of what the other one was. And I was like, I thought you were only allowed to be a citizen of two countries or something. I didn't know. And she's like, oh, no, no, no, because of my dad. I'm the citizen of all these nations. And I'm like, what? And so then later when she was talking to me about something one day, she said that the Roth child were the greatest protectors of her family. And she wasn't talking about Lynn Forrester, by the way. She was talking about the other ones, the people that are in her. Yeah, yeah. Well, when Forrester and Lynn were the greatest, they've always been the greatest. Well, when Forrester and Lynn were the greatest, they've always been the greatest child family. And that was in like the late 90s, early 2000s. So, yeah, if she was talking about this to you for then. It was really didn't mean her. Yeah. Yeah, no, it was through Gilan. I mean, is that Lynn Forrester, I believe? Didn't she hook up through them? She met the Roth child. She met the Roth child who's her husband through Henry Kissinger. I believe a builder bird. Yeah. Oh, Kissinger. Okay. Yeah, of course. Well, that's the official story. You never know what that's being. People, they always lie. Oh. And they met each other in the circumstances. You know, I mean, they do lie. I do lie. I'm honest. What you find out, Whitney, is that they all knew each other all along. That's what I'm finding out. I'm like, how do these people, how are they all connected? You know, it's unbelievable. And when I called the FBI, I'm going to tell you what I told them. I said, I know this is strange, but I have a report to make. And this is exactly what's Whitney. I said, I have a report to make on someone that I've been working for that recently kidnapped me. I said, I know this is weird and embarrassing, but I have to tell you because I need to know if he's a pedophile. I don't know how I knew to say that. Like, what? Anyway, and they said, who are you talking about? And I said, okay, well, his name is Jeffrey Epstein. And I said, and her name is Gillan Maxwell. And I said that here's what's important. It also involves the Clinton family. It involves Bill Clinton, for sure. It involves Donald Trump. And I said the game show host. I thought he was a game show host. I didn't know who he was. And later, like, I thought it was funny that I said that. But I said, you know, the game show host, Donald Trump. And I said that the most important one. And I said that he's the head of the snake is less lexner. And they said, what do you think he is? And I said, he's Jewish mafia. And they said, what do you mean? And I said, what do you mean? What do I mean? I said, he's not Italian. He's Jewish and he's mafia. I said, I can't be any clearer with you. And they said, how do you know he's Jewish mafia? And then I went on the list. Everything that I've seen. Could you tell me you told them about why you thought wexner was the Jewish mob? Because that anything you can tell me there helps me build my keys. I don't know if you read my background in Wexner, or wexner, or part three of my series, or remember it. But there's definitely a lot of evidence pointing to hate rates. So there was this police report filed. And I think it was Columbus about the murder of his tax attorney. And the police report was destroyed. Oh my God. But there was a copy of it that ended up resurfacing 15 years later after it was supposed to be destroyed that linked him pretty much directly to the National Crime Syndicate, which is the Jewish and Italian mafia is working together. But in the 1980s, there were these series of lawsuits in a rest made. Rudy Giuliani was actually a big part in that. It was like the pizza something. I can't remember. But they basically, the Jewish mob in New York took out the Italian mafia. They'd been working with all those years and consolidated and basically just took over the whole thing. So anyway, Wexner has ties to those guys. So, but anything you can give me about what you saw that made you think. So, I mean, there's clear ties from that, right? But beyond that, anything you can tell me about what you saw, why you thought it was organized crime and not like intelligence, things like that. So anything there is helpful. Right. Right. Right. So one of the things that made me think it was all the past works. So, you know, they say that they only found, they found, I know for a fact, Epstein had an Israeli passport because he showed me. But Epstein, and I'll tell you about The Wexner, like why I think he's mafia, but I just want to say too, why I thought it was really sketchy that they had, like how Gieland had all those passwords. And then it made me really mad that when the FBI raided the safe, I know what within that safe. And it's not a regular safe. It's a whole room just so you know. So when people say a safe, they think, oh, it's a safe. It's The Wexner had one too. It's a whole room you walk into. And in that safe, he had all the paintings he'd been stealing when I was acquiring paintings for him from poor artists. But he also had a lot of photographs of children. And I know for pictures of my sisters are in there because one of the people from his freaking office had told me they were in his briefcase, and he kept his briefcase in that safe. He also kept everything in there because he told me he kept it for Wexner everything. And when I asked why they recorded everything all the time, I said, is Wexner really paranoid? And he said, yeah, that's one way of saying it. Yeah, he keeps everything. He records it all. He said, I record everything and I keep it for Wexner in the safe. So the first house I go to has pinhole cameras. Jeffrey's showing me. He's really proud of them. The second house I go to has pinhole cameras. He says, Wexner gave me this house for a dollar. Wexner gave me this for a dollar. Then I go to the apartment. Okay, so the way I found out that they had pinhole cameras in the Victoria's Secret dressing rooms in the 66th street building, which was the flagship store, is that Jeffrey sends me over there. This is so gross. And I can't even believe I was so cut down at this point. I can't believe I kept working for him. And this is my most sure thing about him. He said, you really do not. I mean, I didn't live this kind of experience with the newspaper. But I had an abusive parent. And when you get worn down enough, you are willing to put up with stuff you would not normally accept, right? So totally understand, please never blame yourself. You're so true. Please don't blame yourself. And don't feel ashamed. Yeah, once we were important, I had about getting the information out to expose these guys. That's what matters. So don't feel like a marist or anything. Do not blame yourself for this. What we all do. We all feel shame and embarrassment. Because you're human. All that it needs to be. You are not. I mean, you know, I mean, it just means that you're not like them. You know, but it's not your fault. You know what I mean? So please don't, please don't blame yourself. Right. But anyway, I don't need to interrupt you. But yeah, I feel creeped out. But yeah, oh, no, no, no. I was just going to say that that. So Jeffrey says to me one day he has me in the office and he goes, you just don't know where to wear a bra. And I was like, oh my god. And I have this thing where I'm really modest about my body. And so it's horrifying to me. Like I'm very modest. Like I won't wear a bathing suit. And I was never a but sexually, but I've always just been, I don't know, just really weird about my body. So this stuff was so extra traumatic for me because in a weird way, I was like a child because I was so innocent, right? And I'm not just saying that like I didn't, my boyfriend's from New York, that's one thing they can all say is, well, we never had sex because Maria was just so, I don't know what it was. I was just really driven with my art and I was just really kind of innocent. And I would like show guys my jewelry when they were going to my apartment. I was just, I don't know, I was on another planet. I didn't get it yet. I mean, so I was just like really young, and so that's why I think they picked up on that in me. And I know my friend Sarah was the same way, and they picked up on that in her. And even though we were in our 20s, they still could see it in us that we were innocent. And that's what so sick as they prayed only on innocent people that we had straight A's, we're really driven. You know, there are all these things about, even though we don't all look alike, we had everything in common. We were all very creative. And so the Jeffrey sends me over to the flagship store, which he can see from his offices, but he can't see into the store. He can only see, you know, and I walk over and, you know, I go in, and the women are like, okay, we expected you here. So we're going to have, we have some bras picked out for you. And I'm like, oh, God, so Jeffrey had already talked to the women who work there. And so they hand me all these bras, and I have to try them on in the dressing room, and not one of them fit me. I am not kidding you, not one of them. So when it was all done, I said, you know what? I don't want any of these. And I went over and I picked out, I had $300 of credit. So I picked out a bunch of flannel, the jolmas that were on sale, that I knew I would use. So then I didn't know, I didn't know he would know. So then I come back upstairs, and he had watched me on dress. He described my breasts to me. And the reason he was able to do this, I have certain marks that are unusual and scars, and he described every single thing. And I've never been more embarrassed. I wanted to die, that my boss was discreet. And he wasn't doing it in a sexual way, he was doing it in a really critical mean way, like making fun of my body. And he's like, we're going to have to fix this. But for now, he just wanted me to have no breasts at all. It was so awful. And I'm like, okay, I have breasts, like I can't control it, you know. Anyway, it was awful. And he's like, you're going to go back there, and you're going to get bras that fit you, and you're going to do it right now. And I kept the jolmas with him, but I did, I went back, and I got these horrible bras. I never wore, because they would like, write up in the back, and they were itchy, and never worry about that. And then the next day, he takes me out, and he's like, your clothes are totally inappropriate. And he makes me try on clothes. And I remember I wouldn't get any, because they were so cheesy, so I asked if we could go to the Nanner Republic to medap, which I didn't know, like, Snor did not know. But those are the only stories I liked at the time. And so he took me there and bought me like $1,000 worth of clothes. He did this with everybody all the time. Like, it was just like, I need to go shopping. And he would call the women, and have them go shop with him. But the horrifying part is, before the next day, he says, you know, he describes the boobs to me, and I realized, at that moment, those women couldn't see me in there. There were cameras in there that said to his offices. And just to fast forward, when I was in Waxner's house, there were cameras, every freaking, there were penhole cameras throughout that thing. And Jeffery again, and he's like, oh, look at all the penhole cameras. In Gilan says, you need to be careful. We can see everything. So I kind of ignored it, and I would go and paint in areas where I didn't think there were penhole cameras. And then, and one was the garage. I actually later took over the pool house, which Randy Bowie came threaten me, but I didn't care, because there were no penhole cameras in there, and I could work without being watched. But when I would go to the restroom or take a shower or anything, Gilan would call me, and from the speaker, and this is in New York, sometimes in London, in different places, she would say, get off, get out of the Lou, get off the toilet. You have to come to the unit who would start screaming at me. And I was on the toilet, and I'm like, what's happening? So then later, Jeffries, like, oh yeah, everything's being said to Abigail. And so one day, we're sitting there, I mean, my friend is there. Okay, so Jeffering, Gilan, flew this woman out three or four times to see me, because I was dying of loneliness, right? I mean, I was in isolation. Quarantine for three months, before anyone had heard of me. And I'm there by myself, and I'm like, this is bad. I had a boyfriend in New York, and I just wanted to be there. And so they flew this girl out that was really annoying, that she would hang out with me. This isn't Claire, this is another girl. And she would hang out with me. And so one day, I said, I'll got your hair. I was going to put some henna in her hair. And I spilled a spot, okay, this thing is called the Rotundo where I live. And in it, in the center, is a big circular hallway that's like a library, but it's all fake, like fake books, fake everything. It's so cheesy. But I filled on their tacky, thick carpet, a spot, just the tiniest spot of henna, as I was walking in the bathroom. So I pulled a garbage can over it. And I got a call from Gilan an hour later, scraining, like you've never heard, the Abigail is going to have me thrown out of there because there's henna on the carpet. How in the hell did they know? They're watching everything. They literally watched my every move Whitney. Who does that? My point is, who has cameras everywhere? Shirt shooters, dobermen, mafia. That's why I said mafia. I'm like, I don't know anyone who lives like this. I did have a friend whose grandfather was mafia in New York, and they were the big, big families. And I went to their house one time and they acted just like this. I went to their house out in the Hamptons, and I had a friend with me. I had two friends with me, one's black and one's Jewish, and they wouldn't let them in to the estate. And they let me come in. And I was like crying because my friends had to stay there, and I was like, I want to go home. And it's the only other time I felt like this was when I went to a mafia house. And I knew, I just knew it was just intuition. I don't know if that helps you, but nobody lives like this. Nobody. With this level of security and paranoia and violence, having a violent bug come over to threaten a young woman who's an artist, who's done nothing wrong. Right. And they were also going to take my life that day. And I knew that, but I made such a stink, because I knew they heard everything and watched. And so I made such a stink like in front of the cameras, and on the phone, when I called Eric, I said, the wexners are going, Eric Fischel, I'm like, they're going to have me murdered. I'm not allowed to leave. He's like, you've got to get the hell out of there. Whatever you do, leave. And I'm like, they're going to shoot me. You know? I told everybody. I called everyone I'd ever met in my life. Well, they knew that because they watched. So that's the only way I got out of there with me. I saved my own life. And people like to save my dad, they never let him on the estate. He was at the gates crying. I had to walk his boys to him, knowing I would probably get shot, walk the three miles to the gates. And the other thing is they're having a really hard time because I have a driver's license that has their address on it. And they're saying, I never lived there. It's kind of hard to get one of those when it gets shipped to you. And you have to go the mailbox. Yes. Yes. My lawyers have the license. I'll send it to you. Yeah. Well, a picture is fine. I'll send you pictures. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they have a hard time with that. And that just fell out of one of my art boxes, like right when all this happened. I didn't even know I still had it. I used to have a list of all the threats that I kept in my safety deposit box. Of all the threats I received over the years, from them, and they were horrifying. And so one day when I was moving out of Boston, I thought I was finally safe. And I'm like, you know what? I'm good. They're going to leave me alone. It's been a lot of years. I was going to use my name again, and I'm going to be me. And then as soon as I moved to Kentucky, that brighter started harassing me. That guy, you know. Yeah. And so everyone in the town knew I'm in this little town, and then everyone knew I was like, I'd reported something to the FBI. I was just like, you know, rumors start in weird little towns. And I had to stay inside for five years in that town, because I would be harassed, because of that stupid writer. I hate that guy. I mean, he's just so irresponsible. I do not like him. Not a fan. But I made him a lot of money for this documentary. He's going to make a fortune because of me. Because no one was willing to do this thing. But I said, I'm going to do it because of Bill McClellan. And Bill reminded me of my ex-boyfriend. He's just a really good guy. And I was like, oh, I want to do this. And I know he's going to do a really good story. And it's not going to be too sensational or cheesy. It's just going to tell a lot of stuff about Wexner. And I made that agreement with him so that, you know, the other thing about Wexner is, I'm sure you know this. But this is something I noticed when Jim and I drove through, you know, Ohio. As soon as you cross into Ohio from Kentucky or wherever, you get the first building you see is the Abigail Wexner Center for Women. I thought I was going to die. I was like, you got to be kidding me. And then they just, they're buildings, dot, the whole state. So no matter where you are, you see Wexner, this, Wexner, that. But then when you go to the bathroom, especially as you get close to Columbus, there's human trafficking signs everywhere, Whitney, everywhere. So when you go to the bathroom in Columbus, on the door, it says, do not speak to anyone, do not walk with anyone, go back to your car. I mean, there's like instructions on how to not be trafficked. And I'm sorry, that's not, I don't believe in coincidences at all. I don't believe in them. And years ago, when I was in hiding, I was listening to the show and it said, did you know that all human trafficking begins and ends in Columbus, Ohio? Isn't that interesting? And I'm like, what? So human trafficking from the United States, even if they get the kid from Phoenix, before they take them to Mexico, they go to Columbus. What are the chances? I mean, he owns Columbus. And it's the hub. Now it's not the number one LAs, the number one Center for Human Trafficking now, but at the time it was Columbus, and it's still Columbus is number three. It's not the third biggest city, and it's also the place where they all go. They all go to there before they leave the country or go to wherever they're going. They go to Columbus first. Why? Why do they take everyone to Columbus first? And I mean, the fact that they watched me like that, that Abigail, I had to get her permission to go outside. I'll never forget the one time she let me go to my mailbox. That's when I got my driver's license. And I had to walk like six miles, because there was no way to leave the estate, unless you walked the three miles to the gate, and then you walked down the main white barn road to these old junky mailboxes. There were like six of them. And I used their mailbox, and I got my mail for one time. And that was the only way I was allowed to go down that road. I remember I was like, God, I get to jog today. I was just so happy. But I remember being terrified that my brothers would leave, and the dobermans would come out, so I came back very quickly. I was just like, who lives like that with me? Who lives like that? And who has a tunnel under their house, and the floor raises up. I will tell you that according to the maid, yes, according to the maid, the way to the maid, the way to the maid, the marriage was like a setup. That was just the maid. It's not a pretty thing. According to Jeffery. I prefer my couple of people. Okay. Well, Jeff Andy said he's deaf, he and Jeffrey were definitely getting it on. And I believe him. So, and I don't think it was because Jeffery wanted to. I think Jeffrey just did his bidding for Wexner and whatever way he wanted. I think Jeffrey did whatever Wexner wanted. And he provided Wexner not only with boys but with girls. And there are rumors in at the university that Claire's boyfriend had said, but I didn't heard from other people that at the university he would have parties. So you know that floor that would raise up? He would have parties. And that would become like a dance floor thing. And he'd have all these boys from school for the university come. Just boys. He only wanted boys. So that was kind of a known thing on the estate, you know? Yeah. And yeah, I just hated that Abigail for never letting me go outside very much. I hated her. And I let that she says she's never spoken to me, heard from me, heard of me. And it's all a lie. And my driver's license proves that's a lie. So that'd be pretty hard, you know, to have lived there and have gotten out of the way since we're actually. Well, I mean, you know, honestly at this point, I don't think anyone's been able to use Wexner. He's there's too much against him at this point for anyone to take his word for anything about any of this. Yeah, wait and wait and please talk to Virginian. Virginian has the real smoking gun. It's on him too, but I can't. I'm not allowed to say anything, but I do know that she does. And I will put her in touch with you. Yeah, that would be great. But really quick, you sort of mentioned that you knew that Wexner had some sort of Israel tie and that the lane was working on her hem. Can you elaborate on that? Do you think he had ties to Israeli intelligence? Yeah. Okay. And why did you say that? So I absolutely do. So, okay, so this is why I think it. So Jeffrey and Gieland, they were at the estate, you know, they came like three times to visit Wexner while I was there. And they would go meet with him and then they'd come back. And Gieland said they were working on all these Israeli charities for students and for Jewish people. And I remember thinking, oh, that's weird. And she was like, you don't understand our loyalty, Israel. Maria, you don't understand our loyalty. She's like, unless you're a dual citizen, you just don't get it. She's like, your people could never understand. She would say, my people, your people, the chosen ones, all that bullshit. And I'm just like, let me tell you something. If I walk out of here, not at all racist, it's a freaking miracle because I'm still, you know, I struggle every day with it. I'm like, oh, I was so abused. I'm like, you know, I guess it could have happened from any group, but because they're the ones that happen to control the world. It's hard. It's really hard. Like this specific group, you know, of elites. It's really hard to not just hate them, you know. And so I haven't gotten over hating that Gieland and they say, they try and let everyone in my design too, you know, in order to give themselves protection. Yeah. I think it's very intentional. But yeah, I can't blame you for being here anyway considering what you had to go through. Right. Well, I don't really feel that way. Like, let me tell you my background. Every boyfriend I've ever had was very Jewish. Like, I mean, 100% and never, I mean, I had the best relationships in New York. I mean, these are like the most patient guys. I don't know why I picked it up with me. I think back on it and I'm like, those are the nicest guys. So there are four boyfriends I had. And everybody who got in touch with them said, you know what, your boyfriends loved you so much and say nothing but nice things. So I have had very good experiences. But it was the Eileen Guggenheim thing and the Gieland. All of that really soured me on like the religion in general, if you want to know the truth. Like religion being used against people and just all of it. It's just really, it's soured me. And I don't totally trust people. Even though I have friends that are Jewish, like I still have fraught trust issues. And it's so unfair to them. I know it's rationally, I know it's unfair, but I was so scolded by the hot water. You know, I just can't, I just can't, I just can't pick my hand back in it. I'm not okay with my heart right now. But I don't totally feel that way. Like, yeah. I'm just being honest. I'm like a really honest person with me. And so most people will never talk about that stuff. And I'm not, and the other thing that pisses me off is this whole anti-Semitic BS because they've said they call Bernie Sanders anti-Semitic. You know what I mean? Like when is it going to end? Like that big out of control. What? And the whole thing. And really one of my best friends is that even though you just mentioned that what Gleint told me, right? And Sheldon Adelson, he's on video saying all I cater about is being a good citizen of Israel. And he's the top political donor in the United States. So the fact that you're not allowed to talk about it, I think, is very troubling. Right? So, but anyway, I want to go back to some of what told you about at least like intelligent stuff. And what you heard about like Israel and Israel and Israel and Israel. Yes. I want to tell you what she said about her dad. Right. Yes. She said about her dad's funeral. Here. She told me. And he was such an important person for Israel that they gave him a state funeral. And she went on and on and on about this funeral ceremony. And she showed me pictures of like what a big deal it was. And she said, she said they murdered him. That Israel murdered him. She said the CUNP murdered him. And she's telling me about this. So like, she's saying Israel murdered their asses. Did you do that? I don't know. That's what she believed. And yeah. So I thought after like talking to Chef Andy that he jumped off the boat. Because Chef Andy was like, Maria, that guy was the biggest criminal in history. And in London, and he had stolen so much money that I think he jumped. And I was like, oh, okay. Because you know, this is just his opinion. But Andy knew all of them. And he knew, he knew Wexner before Wexner and Episcopal were working together. So that's why he's the Holy Grail. I'm telling you. I'm going to send you his photo and his information. If you can get that guy to talk, oh my god. But anyway, he's also, he's Jewish too. I would say only like non-Jewish employees, that was the other thing. They wouldn't have people who found that weren't Jewish. It was really weird. The only people, of course all the people they raped were never Jewish. You know, that was like another rule, I think. I mean, maybe it wasn't a rule, but it seemed to be. But the children were never Jewish. You know, just the employees and like a lot of like Leslie Graff and those people, you know, that they had around. Or usually, like they trusted each other. But they don't trust people outside their network. So it's not just that they're Jewish, it's that they're connected. You know, like my boyfriend at the time when I was dating all of them, I mean, when I was dating him and working for them, was Jeff Mendelssohn. He is a needy-sky. You can talk to him. I'm sure he remembers stuff about it. He's a sharp as a tack. His father was Dr. Mendelssohn. He was head of flown catering. So I had been around some really smart people. And that's how I knew these people weren't very smart. And everything I would tell Dr. Mendelssohn, he's like, Maria, that sounds like it's great. He's Dr. Mendelssohn said, there is really intelligent. He said, they're scary. You need to stay away from them. And I was like, oh, I've quit. My job, don't worry. But yeah, like everything I would tell people, there's another guy you should speak to. And he's the one who founded the New York Academy of Art. His name is Stuart Pivar. He's Jewish, too, of course. But he's totally different. But he's a little senile and eccentric. He's a billionaire and he's like really strange. He's an inventor. He invented like the stuff that the coils that go in the trucks that Mr. Conquerie, and he's invented all kinds of things. And he's so rich. And so he decided he was Andy Warhol's best friend. And Andy Warhol was like not smart at all, right? But they were really good friends. And Stuart Pivar is a scientist. He was brilliant. And an inventor. And Barbara Guggenheim, an island sister, was in this Warhol group. She was like a groupie. And they would all sleep together and date and everything. So Barbara and Stuart kind of found... Barbara thinks the Academy belongs to their family because she was dating him when they founded it, right? And so that's how Eileen kind of came in and you surfed the whole thing like, oh, this is my school. But Stuart has always not understood how they just totally stole that school from him. And he doesn't appreciate all the pedophilia. And I used to see Stuart all the time at the flea market in New York. And I would walk up to him and chat. And one day I saw him. And I don't remember this. But he tells... He tells something Jones is a publication. I can't take the name of it. I'll look it up. But anyway, he tells them that... And I remember this now. Because that scene would stalk me and then had him after I got back. It was so scary and that's why I left New York City. He would just be behind me on the subway. And I would like run and take off. So he actually witnessed him stalking me at the flea market. And I said to Stuart, you're not going to believe this. But they tried to rape my sister and they stole her. And I was stolen... And anyway, I took off in Mother Jones. So he tells in an article in Mother Jones all about this, like witnessing this. But most people weren't willing to come forward and say, yeah, we saw Gilan harassing Maria. No one will say anything. No one. They just like, no one cared. But finally, I couldn't believe broke my heart that this man cared enough to tell the truth. And he wants the academy taken down because I leaned in charge of it. And he's horrified. Like this fence is in charge of our school. So I want my alma mater dead. Honestly, I think it's an evil place that's been evil for a very long time. I think you need to ask Randy Mellick about it. Ursula... I think they could put you in touch with other people who could tell you about how I lean Guggen and work. Do I have what? They're contact information, like how I can get... Do you need permit? Oh! Okay, so Randy Mellick, I can look him up and see if I can find his information. Ursula, I could find her maybe through art net. Well, if you can, you can probably have a better chance of recognizing them if you look them up than me, because I don't know the face, you know, or anything like that. So many of the people that you've mentioned that you think I should reach out to you. And I'll send Jeff Andy. If you have their contact information, if you can pass it off to me, if you can't find it, then don't worry about it. I don't want you to spend more time than you need to. Okay, but any of these people... No, no, I'm really... Whitney, I want to help. Okay, well that's great. Yeah, I really want to help with this. I can't explain to you how much the first time I read something of yours, I was like, oh my God, I have to get to know this woman. And I reached out to Edward Zoll, because he had mentioned you one day. And I was like, Edward, please tell Whitney, I love her, I appreciate everything she does, and I need to talk to her someday, because I have information for her. And he was like, will do. Absolutely. He's so nice. He's a nice woman. And those guys were taken off YouTube. You know, it's actually illegal to be Christian now too on YouTube. It's really gross. And that's all part of the same group, you know, reaching it. Yeah, the CEO of YouTube has worked at the same project. What he firm is Net and Yahoo. So I mean, it's a little club. Oh, gross. Is that that woman? Susan Wojiki? Is it a woman? Yeah, she's CEO of YouTube right now. She used to work for a bank capital. Yeah, I love how she's in one of my new drawings. Yeah, I'm working on her. Trust me. During these really great anti-ali drawings, and I called the first one, I'm like, this is called the diagram for the FBI. They didn't listen to me. So maybe they can follow my visual instructions. I am so mad at them, Whitney. Okay, so I didn't tell you the last thing they did that was so cruel. So when I was in Kentucky, and I was being attacked for being an Epstein victim, my lawyer said, Maria, you need to call the FBI. They're here to protect all Epstein victims. They have promised. They will protect us. I called and he said, what is your name? And he could tell he was reading something on there. And he goes, you don't have a case. You don't have a problem. I'm not listening to a word you have to say. No one in this organization is ever going to listen to you again. And he hung up on me. And my mom was right there. This is the FBI. It's the KBI of Kentucky. And I was like, oh God, I'm in. I am. I'm not safe. I almost moved. A friend of mine was like, you know, you should move to be with me in Australia for a while. I almost moved. But I moved to like a gated community in the woods. But I am so tired of this when I lean Guggenheim and Kielen Mack. But I just want to make my ego 댓t. People have to be alone together. They have to be well. People need to be hiding. I'm the one who has to hide. Why is it Abigail Wixner timing? Is a, oh, that is one evil that talks with me. That is one evil woman. Someone tell you something. The thing that really started me off with have like a person's name like a look of Whitney Webb Whitney Webb likes to write articles, you know, or whatever. This says Abigail Wexner likes to breed her own breed of horses. And I'm like, no, she doesn't. Abigail Wexner likes to keep artists captive and to start them so they can be raped. That's what Abigail Wexner does for Miss Fodd. I mean, it's so obvious, you know, it's like, I don't know. It's really frustrating. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, it's, you know, it's so inverted with justice system right now, because these people are at the top and they think they can buy everyone off. But I think we're really starting to reach critical mass or enough people are just sick of it, you know, fed up with it. But, you know, I want to do. I do want to ask you about the world. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Oh, sorry. One thing I wanted to ask you was specifically your reaction. Oh, shoot it. Cut out a second. Oh, sorry. Can you hear me now? I can call you too or can you hear me? No, no, no, it's fine. I just, I might have this thing that works if you prefer. Yeah, I can hear you now. Okay. I wanted to ask about, oh, no, it's good. I can hear you now. Okay, good. I don't, I live in South America, so sometimes. It cuts out just because it's so beautiful there. It's nice. Yeah, I really like it. It's beautiful. It's honestly, I don't think I'd be able to write about these things with my kid if I lived in the US, you know, what I mean. So it's kind of nice to have that distance too. Just make me feel more sane. Yeah. You know, but anyway, I wanted your reaction. I would not bring that in America. Yeah, I'm not planning to. Yeah. So anyway, I wanted to ask you a reaction to this ruling, the recent ruling. If you have any thoughts you want to share because I was planning to write a short article with either your views that I can touch with Virginia, her, her opinions about it. Yeah. You know, who would be better to talk about that than Virginia is Courtney? Because Courtney's the one. Virginia has had nothing to do with keeping going. Right. Yeah, I'll give, I'm going to give you, I could pass to the Brad and Brad is her lawyer and he would love for her to be able to make a statement about it. He's not going to like edit, which he says or whatever, but I just don't, I don't have her personal information on me right now, but I'm going to pass you to Brad and then he'll sure pass you to Courtney. Brad's amazing. He's like, oh God, he's the best person. He's the real, he's the real deal. He's an actual lawyer that really wants justice and it's pretty incredible to watch. He breaks my heart. Like I did a painting of this whole family because I was so, just blown away by his goodness for all these women and I worked on it for like a year. He was like, this is amazing. Sorry, like total kum baya between all of us, but Courtney is the one who's really been making this case happen. She and Brad, you know, trying to keep it alive and that's why the bill was being named after her because she never let it go. She had never let it go and she's really the powerhouse was Brad behind making this case stay alive and you know Virginia has suffered immensely and all that but she's also fortunate in that she's been able to sue because he land lied about her and I was able to say he lands lying and she was able to take you land money. So Virginia is pretty well set up, you know. The rest of us are destitute and hiding, terrified, sick. A few of us have gotten really sick. I've gotten really sick. So what I would agree just about the ruling is that first of all, I'd like to say that the the voice of dissent was the most beautiful thing I've ever heard because she said that's a reptile lament and I've got to tell you something. She was dead on when they were saying, oh well we really want to do this but we can't, you know. So basically my opinion is that these little girls were in diapers and not even born when I made my report to the FBI how dare them. How did they live with themselves? How does Burman look in the mirror? Honestly, he makes me sick and you know the other thing about I'm going to finish this but I want to tell you when Burman first announced that the arrest he was a little pointer and he had a poster of Epstein, his 25 cent poster and he's pointing to it saying does any but I couldn't believe he lied to everyone. He lied to the United States of America when he said this. He said we didn't know about this criminal until we read in the Miami Herald. Oh my god. He says we need victims of this murder. Yeah, yeah. Well he said until we read the Miami Herald we didn't even know this man and I told his damned office everything. His office knew they knew it all and they knew I was right. It was telling the truth and it told me to be quiet about it which if the FBI tells you not to say anything you don't tell anybody that's why it was really hard with Vicky Ward to get that information out of me because I'm like the FBI told me not to talk you know and I think they're doing their case because I thought they were an actual I thought that they were an actual police organization. I didn't know they were a criminal organization that protected the corrupt people on top and the way they're proving this is there's a woman in the United States right now who is like an actress and some scumbag singer ponder into paying $500,000 to get her kids into school and now the FBI is putting her in prison they're going for G-Land. And so it's really a two-tier justice system. I mean you know you've got the white people and then you've got these people. So I'm just a plebeian you know but but anyway so yeah it's just my opinion is that Courtney will make sure that this ruling does not sit and I will make sure of it and Annie and Virginia and all of us together will make certain that this ruling does not last and we're with the voice of descent that that's a reptile lament and we're not going to let it stand that's my opinion that's my statement. I'm mad I'm really mad. Yeah I can't blame you. I think I can't blame you. I swear to you this is so weird but I swear. You know it took me a while to even come across your story you know what I mean. Virginia was definitely the one that was the most put out there like the face of Epstein's victims you know she's the most well-known. So people that didn't do enough digging don't know. I know one thing I really wanted to ask you before we you know wrap it up for today if that's it is um I found the scrub report from a UK newspaper it's from 2001 and Bill Gates has said that uh the New York Times basically said that Bill Gates didn't meet Epstein until 2011 was the first time they met that's what the New York Times officially says but the scrub report in 2001 says that one of Epstein's sources of money it names three people it names Wexner right it names Trump and it names Bill Gates. Yep this is in 2001 is there anything you know about um yeah right so I know I know that they discussed Bill Gates I heard his name come up between Epstein and Gilan I will guarantee you they knew him I don't know why they would be discussing him um back in the 90s you know 95 yeah so that's way before 20 of them yeah yeah no I heard them very actively talk and I remember I remember because I went to school in the Silicon Valley and you know the internet was kind of still kind of a new thing a little bit and I remember thinking wow they know the Microsoft guy like I thought that was amazing I didn't know anything about how disgusting he was and I just thought he was really an amazing genius and I just want to know him oh wow maybe he'll show up sometime you know they talked about him like they do him well so that was in 1995 all right do you remember anything you said about him or do you just knew that they were discussing him like they knew him well but you don't recall any details yeah I don't I don't recall any details I just remember all I remember I remember I was thinking gosh I hope he comes here sometime because they know him and oh my gosh you know I just remember being really amazed because I thought he was this superhero you know I didn't know anything about him I just knew what I learned in panic Clara you know it was um he was just some cool guy that yeah so it definitely is interesting invented Microsoft yeah yeah no he's he's in on it he's part of it yeah he's part of the problem and the thing that you realize when he's a blinded is that they all kind of like only know each other that's what's really frustrating well yeah yeah yeah yeah and I know that people always that you didn't hear anything about that or or Epstein talk about Microsoft or anything like that or investments with Silicon Valley in the 90s or anything like that did you hear anything yeah don't remember okay yeah definitely definitely they were definitely they were talking about Silicon Valley and that was the thing that perked me up was like I had just gotten you know I'd gone to school there undergrad so like I really listened to whenever they were talking about the Silicon Valley and Jeffrey was always like really into pretending like he was learning he was always like oh I want to learn about all this so he would always threaten that he was going to go study in the Silicon Valley blah blah blah but as far as like specifics I don't remember any specific statements about Microsoft any specific I just remember thinking oh my god they know him I might get to know him you know it was just off the cuff conversation and I was just listening and thinking to myself oh that would be an honor you know that would be one guy I'd like to meet because all the people they were bringing in were scumbags like Leon Black and all these people coming and going were they were so elite and they were not of any interest in me you know I have no interest in them and so I thought oh wow they know Bill Gates I just remember thinking they knew him because they were talking about him as they knew him as if they knew him well you know like he's their buddy and and I'm pretty sure that I'm trying to think of what okay they also said that they were going to do have all these people at their estate in New Mexico so when I went there the first time I don't know if we'll remember this but when I went there the first time with Eileen bringing me there that was my first time around Jeffrey and Gilan after they bought my art you know I've never had any contact with them other than that and so they bring she brings me to their estate and they were talking about having scientists come they were talking about what that estate was going to be and they said it was going to be a place where they had people from the Silicon Valley people from that was another time I heard the word Silicon Valley they said they were going to have people from you know political organizations with political power people from science I remember in saying scientists would gather there because he wanted it to be a place where people could learn like a great learning institution and at the time they didn't say anything about like sperm or anything like that you know but they made it really clear they were selling this as a place so I know when the Clintons came they he told me that they stayed in in the village that was like the old it's like an old western village it was really weird there Whitney it was really weird but anyway he said Bill came to you know stayed there at the western village with their daughter you know Hillary and Bill and everybody Kelsey but that was later that was later that he told me so when I first went there it was just being constructed and so he was showing me what each building was intended to do and he was like well we're going to have our own fire department here this is the firehouse we're going to have our own hospital here we're going to do surgery here isn't that creepy we can do anything in our own little hospital here and we can do and I said well why would you need a hospital he said well there's snakes people get bitten by snakes all the time here yeah why would they surgery if it was for yeah or snake bites I don't know oh my god yeah I don't know buddy dad he said surgery yeah we can do our own surgery here and and then this is you know the main house wasn't built and I was like wow I got in trouble for my lean because I said wow this is a great double wide and I was supposed to pretend like it was really great and so I kind of was mad at them that they acted like I was so dumb that I come in and say oh this is wonderful yes so I made fun and said wow this is a really great double wide and Jeffrey thought it was hilarious and he would like you get over here you are so funny and we start talking and he was actually like warming as hell funny to talk I know it's gross because he's a disgusting pedophile and you could tell that there was like a sickness with him a real sickness but I didn't know what it was like it was like he had cancer or something but you didn't know like I have really dark eyes now because I have cancer and he looked like that you know but it was a it was a sexual sickness I didn't know oh god I got the feeling towards the end before I even went to waxers that they were very sinister I just didn't know what they were up to but seeing waxers place really made made me put a lot of pieces of the puzzle puzzle together and I don't know I don't know that's helpful at all but it's I had to live it's helpful I had to live under constant surveillance yeah yeah okay good yeah I don't know the statements very rich but I thought the thing that I can use it all but I have a lot of you know information but obviously any you know I witness accounts always help you know bump stuff up so like I have that article proving that Epstein and and Bill needs to knew each other well before 2001 and if you heard them talk about him like they knew him then that makes me support that even more you see what I mean absolutely like even if you think it's not necessarily like yeah you know you saying it is gonna blow it all open it helps me build and support the case that will do that if that makes sense right so I don't don't worry yeah I can use everything you you give me I wouldn't worry about it oh good good I didn't want to see none and all right I really appreciate your time oh yeah thank you and I would really love to get in touch with David also the message and things I'd like to tell him yeah I'll I'm sure they'd be very interested to speak to you but let me yeah and tell him oh I just wanted it a both of you guys I'm gonna send you pictures of the art but I'm gonna make I need your address to it some point because I'm gonna make a copy of it because I want you to have this thing well I didn't know how to make all of the stuff you're recent it hasn't been so long but I know you there yeah that's okay that's okay yeah I want it I want to send it to you because it's really it's really weird how much it fits everything you're talking about I was like I got to send my mom when I finished it you do have to send that to Whitney and and and David I did so funny because my mom knows all the stuff you my mom follows everything you write and well I'm really I'm just really humbled I mean doing this series I like didn't know that I was I didn't really know I was helping you guys out and that just makes me feel really amazing I so much wow so much oh so much like even when they were doing the Netflix documentary he said do you have any like real research and I said Whitney web does and he went on there and he was like holy crap this is helping our documentary because now we can put the pieces together you know because before they just no one would listen to me like no one cared about what happened in the 90 yeah I know hopefully they'll cite me that would be nice oh no I don't know yeah yeah hopefully they'll cite you yeah but I think I he was what he was doing more than anything was just trying to make sense because everything I was saying about the 90s no one believed and I was like please read this because this started way before I was around this was at least I think it was right after her dad died that they hooked up together and started their scam on children and they definitely hadn't gotten it down pat yet but they were they had done it they had been doing it for years I know because they had procured Claire Hazel years before and some of these other people who were then getting other children for them way before Virginia was born you know and so it bothers me that there are all these people that are unaccounted for one major thing where are they if they became prostitute like I love it like people that are evil like in Vic and Con will say well they're probably prostitutes or really if they were prostitutes they would need money and they might be on drugs so they would need not money for the drugs which means they need money which means they would be suing you know yeah anyway so yeah that's great though thank you for listening no I'll probably tell you again at some point once I have more time to spend on my book I'm doing yeah I'm doing some other stuff right now that's not really related to the Epstein case but because of this ruling I wanted to try and you know get some oh I'm sorry about it out there you know just so people stay mad about what has happened because you know I'm sure you have the U.S. people are so oh I don't even know how to describe it if you don't if you don't hammer it home and like remind their short-term memory they just like it becomes normal and people are just like yeah about everything you know so I don't want to happen they're sick well and stupid yeah they're sick they're fickle and stupid people I can't even believe it I'm like why is it that people and now everyone's like I'm dying over the flu virus and I'm like okay that everything that happens now makes me very suspicious yeah I'm like that's interesting timing it's a whole world being wiped out yeah I don't believe that thing anymore I'm just like yeah I don't believe it I mean you know if I die and I told my mom I'd if I die from the flu do not let them put COVID on my thing because I am not going to be one of the statistics that they're using not that I don't believe there's a flu I just don't believe that you have to shut down the world economy for the flu right yeah no it's because the people something else going on people want them that's what I'm trying to point out in in my new series what do you think they're doing um well I think it's an intentional plan because a lot of the things they're promoting is solutions like this new surveillance system they want to put in they had planned out last May yeah and last October before this was even happening and they were saying at the time they needed to put it in for right mass shootings and then there's another document that just came out that didn't even talk about like the justification just we need to do this um that was from this right national security commission on artificial intelligence it's called which is like Silicon Valley and in Qtel which is the CIA um and and they're making this policy and this was all last year and now they're you know putting it out but it's not just that side you know also they knew the economy was going to pop at some point because they never fixed the crisis in 2008 yeah and so I think it was an excuse to control the malign of the economy and rebuild it as in a way that allows them to maintain and consolidate control so I think that's ultimately what all of this is about just sort of a control of the relation of different aspects the society to build it up