JIM FETZER "The Real Deal" (1-28-20) Nick Kollerstrom mythology/theology the "Wailing Wall"

Video Transcript:

Yeah, fine. Yeah Jim. This is Jim Fetzer here host on the raw deal where it's my great privilege to have my special friend research colleague admirable guy What are my favorite people in the whole world Nick Colerstrom? He's a professor of history of science he is Expert on Isaac Newton. He's a leading student of the London 777 subway bombing whereas book terror on the tube Is now in its third or even fourth edition. He's made major contributions to a whole wide range of subjects including Is book breaking the spell about the use of Cyclone B as To kill body lice which were spreading typos and dysentery and the work camps in Germany for which he lost his appointment at London College University College London which was a shocking development I was honored to write the introduction to his book which I recommend to one and all breaking the spell there Today we're going to talk about a wall and its role in a theological metaphysical philosophical context. I can't wait to hear more. Would you like to give us an intro a sketch? Yeah, can we have the first slide up Jim? Absolutely Okay, thanks Now the first slide Okay, that's not I haven't got the first slide up Can you go back to the first slide? Yeah, right, right, right, thanks a lot, right? Okay Now Jim Israel was formed in 1948 and I'm going to look at a bit of history from maybe up to 3,000 years ago I'm getting interested in and The question of how israel got its self-identity the boundaries which it was given in 1948 do not correspond to any historical reality but there was no state with boundaries of that shape so What was happening there and they when they During the There was a war of 1967 when they took over got it got jurosalam and Mugan jurosalam and they found the Samadhi war and cleaned it out Uh, this has been sort of well muslim occupied area that wasn't much greatly appreciated and um The the Jews did clean it all up and it is a very spectacular war okay And uh, question is what is it it's part of what looks like an enormous rectangle more than 30 acres uh and uh of a very raised raised bit of land a space just north of or in milijurosalam and uh This war as you can see from this first slide got very large stones in it and uh There's a question of uh Well, it's been knocked down and rebuilt many times and uh In in the last i'll say this century A very extraordinary thing has happened whereby it becomes a terrific center of prayer And uh, I want to try and explore Jim one is it that makes people want to pray through this war What connected this this is the war also known as the wailing wall is that right Yeah, yeah, wailing wall uh and um you're supposed to come in the you know just I don't know confess or pray or whatever I mean it does seem very odd on its face, doesn't it? What's it stops to pause and contemplate the circumstances? Yeah, and as you can see from this first picture you've got all sorts of prayers written on paper and stuffed in the cracks So i'm not just praying at the that's people stuff in the cracks right here You see that yeah little prayers yeah, stuffed in the cracks And to come near the war you have to wear the um meloka this Jewish hat you can see your american is it bolster now This is john balken who's yeah subject of the impeachment hearing this or whether he might Up here or not as a witness. Yes. Okay. Next Right uh and and so we're looking at the question Not just why would you once by the wall, but it's more as mandasi for anyone who wants to get A present or prime minister's country to go and pray to this war So this is a very extraordinary uh i would tell you a spell has been cast That somehow as though the wall had itself powers To make it events to come about as though the wall had a role of uh deity It seems metaphysically to be that kind of uh yeah Yeah Yeah, what is the power of the wall that were formed feats on earth Yeah, we had Jeremy cuban the opposition leader and he couldn't possibly come prime minister Because he wouldn't have gone price of this war, you know This wasn't it was the reason Well, it's the reason It's part of the reason that was very testament by sent to McKinney I don't know if you remember that time I think he said all all sentences had to gone Prior to this wall. This is a form of all besence to israel therefore deck. This is critical See all of being subservient israel where the current peace plan that the President Trump shown here of course has just unveiled in the company and we mean that yeah who looks like Precisely one more form of all basins to israel. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay next Okay, so here's our current prime minister and um sang his prayer and of course yes It was being converted to normal trump in various ways Yeah, everyone says it's a veteran liar And you can't usually you can't trust what he says but uh here he is sang a prayer uh and uh putting on putting on the hat Uh, so this is a new ritual. I don't think it's been going up for very long. Has it that Uh from this and presidents had to come to this place and and say this prayer. Well, right next Not to put it too crudely, but it looks rather like kissing israel's Oh, it does wrong. Yeah, uh, so here's Obama actually showing something in the crack I was told there are a million prayers a year for into these cracks Um with what becomes of them there. Well, somebody not so I must have put them all out, you know Obviously they're pulled out. I probably unread and burned if I had to guess because otherwise you'd have this It would be overwhelmed with these prayers. I mean you couldn't stop another in it. You couldn't know now. Okay next Um, right. This is the this is the heir to the throne of England prince William And um, he's not out praying uh, well, you don't know what they're praying to but um But the magic will will do something for them, you know Uh, and uh, so this is a very strange situation we're in and um Actually, so the truth as we just passed Holocaust day this does remind me of Auschwitz where Is the Jewish fell has been woven around it And people have a special Totally intensely intensely Jewish perception of what the whole thing was Uh, and uh, it's very strange that these I mean, I'm gonna argue in this in this outgrip. I'm gonna argue this was got nothing whatsoever to do I don't think it's going to do with Jews so as I can tell I'm maybe wrong, but uh, so I'm just raising this issue. I think this is built by By Romans and it's the megalithic wall and uh And if you ask people why is it sacred? They're probably so something that a Solomon's temple might be behind it or Solomon's ever might be somewhere Okay So you do yeah, can you recount the history of the wall then you say it was erected by the Romans? Ha Well, that's what you can't really do that that's the mysterious thing you guys are doing josephus who talks about a Jewish temple But some so that can tell you haven't done a Jew any Roman historians who explain what's what but There was her I think herds um spent a long time But building this and uh, it's hard to find out why but anyway, we'll come as onto that. Let's move on next Even the people Yeah, even the Pope now what I have to see think he's praying to um and This is outrageous. I dolechery a Pope praying to a wall like this uh and And um as I say You have a gift for a budding your finger on peculiarity is Nick I admire you so much for your iconic latham Oh, all right Okay, well the the the famous the mistake here is that Solomon's temple is somehow behind there, right But you're not allowed to dig down a find out because there's a mosque behind there's actually a big mosque On the ground behind this wall Which is very holy site for Islam and So you're not able to dig up and disturb the mosque Except unless Israelis want to do that to start World War 3. This is this is very much part of the plans. We'll see. Okay next Uh, so in the day somebody asked to clean these all out um I mean, I think it's rather weird and creepy myself, but um Because they bring out a giant vacuum cleaner Nick Well, there must be a better thing to pray to I feel but um Anyway, I might say uh let's just notice these stones look pretty large. There's a weighing several tons each. Oh, yeah Uh, okay next Well, gently just comment Nick. I mean they say a million a year And they all go unread. I mean, you know, what is there supposed to be a mystical power that's actually reading them? I mean, is this supposed to be Yahweh actually reading these inscriptions in diverse languages. No doubt I'd say you probably get 26 to a hundred different languages in which these prayers are written Yeah, yeah Um Anyway, it's a very solemn mode. It's his um local residents um all crowded together Uh, Sangha Bra And uh, so If we did when did the practice of praying to the wall be dim Nick? Well, I think that's um I think that people would sort of It was a pretty solemn place for this gigantic wall. So I think people would kind of Sits around before Jews took the place over Uh, and it will close to sits around and my lower things but some The the idea that this was somehow a place An essential Jewish worship And this was after I think sort of 50 after 67 when Jews sort of really moved in took over took over Jerusalem um, and uh If prayers actually achieve anything That the mass of mass of prayers given to this wall Must be doing something, you know, I've tried to do it. Yeah prayer makes a difference. The wall is very powerful Ha ha ha ha yeah, okay next Um, okay here's um here's a uh A view of it and here's the incredibly mysterious fact that the wall goes on deep on below this surface Now there's 1717 layers of stone beneath the ground. Yeah, and when I look later on and the mysterious fact that as you go deeper down Underground the stones get larger. So you've got some primordial very early stones which are much of the biggest And so there was a basis of ground Way below this level that they're at now Which is take 47 stone courses. You mean 47 layers of stones. Yeah, which is discernible I see some of these at the top are relatively small. Yeah, you see that the most close to the most recent ones Yeah, most recent ones are Got a normal size you can imagine all the workers heaving into place and These ones down here are rather enormous Um, and they get bigger still as you go lower down um, so this says herod herodium period that that he built them um, so uh Okay, let's just live that okay next Right, this is a A diagram Or that what herod's might have built is just around about some time of jesus that it was being finished In fact, it's in a Bible reference for the temple being built Some people think that this huge square about 36 acres Which isn't quite square but nearly square was where the rum and 10th legion hung out. Okay, this is a place for the rum and 10th leg And um Uh, all the people saying now herod built this enormous square so that A Jewish temple could be built in the middle Um, that was the wall there to the back left Yeah, the wall that we were just looking at is to the left on the start We're not not so now it's where it says western wall Oh, yeah, part of this Yeah, where it says can you see western wall Yeah, oh yeah, western wall right here, right That's what we were just looking at now Okay That's what we're praying to That's what all the president. Yeah. Yeah. Now behind the back and Tony fortress Some people claim that was the ramen fortress and this huge temple here was Made for the Jews And there was a A temple in the middle of it Which was destroyed now certainly there was a terrific siege Of the Romans they at the sage that Jews in Jerusalem in their temple and one million Jews were killed this This was so it's an enormous war that went on and the historian Josie first tells in that war and during that process The temple was destroyed utterly and completely All right As in the bible Jesus predicts the temple will be destroyed Does that mean there are no remaining remnants of the temple so that archaeologist could not establish you'd had ever actually Well, there are bits of rock lying around about which they can pick up and have a look at but The whole problem is the Jews now claim they're about to build their third temple right The big deal that Trump might be agreeing so is that Jews wants to build a firm temple on what they call the temple mount This whole area is what they call the temple mount They want to build their third temple there And they claim that This first where you got picture here at the temple in the middle was where King Solomon built his original temple in a 10th century BC That's 3000 years ago, okay That was then allegedly destroyed. I mean, I don't believe it ever existed But then another temple a so called second temple was allegedly built now the clean release time So I've heard that There are many Jews who wouldn't mind if there were a war in the Most of this area were destroyed so they could rebuild the or build this third temple Um Right, well, we'll come into that But the problem is with the first two temples There's no record of them existing outside the Hebrew scriptures, okay? You haven't got anyone else who comes in on and sees it and comes in on it Right For example father of history herodotus, right? Yeah He walks through the whole area of Palestine, Canaan And he doesn't hear any story of there being any temple of Solomon Amazing gold-placed temple or any Jewish temple or he doesn't hear about the Jews He doesn't got the Jerusalem at all Um, he just doesn't hear about it So I would say there wasn't very much there then um, so Is this the order then of the stories about the homicidal gas chambers we've heard so much about um Well, uh Let's be killed, but I think there is an element of exaggeration here and I want to suggest that 60 years of archaeology Uh by Jewish archaeologists or by all sorts of archaeologists in the Holy Land and not found the slightest faintest trace of any temple of Solomon, okay This is Or King Solomon or the Empire of King Solomon who is especially a united kingdom of David and Solomon, right? Ten centuries BC. So this would appear to be another element of Jewish mythology Um Yeah, yeah David does seem to have existed. Should we come on to the next one? Sure Okay, this is another diagram Showing you this absolutely enormous structure You can see the Western or Wailing War and uh the dome of the rock Which is where the famous Islamic mosque is built And this whole area is generally called the Temple Mount So the domino Do the Jews want to get rid of the uh domino of the rock to replace it with a Jewish temple? Well, there's a peculiar very peculiar theological argument here that there's something sacred about that exact spot on earth That exact spot Exactly spot and they just have to build a third temple exactly where this most sacred Well, it's destroyed the Muslims most precious site They're absent to a mecca and Medina for the sake of a Jewish temple. Is that what you're telling me there? I'm very sorry. Yeah as far as that make out and they'll also have to start totally animal sacrifices because that's in their sacred book as well Um, they've got to do animal sacrifices as well Got to yeah, it's in the book, you know, it seems like a revision to a very primitive time Well Judaism is is a sequence of it's a contract with laws The god gives laws and in exchange for those laws they get the land That that is the basic Oh, he's going to hear it to the laws which Legend we were given to them by god then he Insures or guarantees their real estate is that it's a guy yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Anyway, um that is let's just focus on on who who made this Um, there's a question which I put to all our listeners which I can't use the answer Is this huge structure here? Was it built for the Roman 10th Legion by Herod or possibly somebody who's our hydrant Um and and if not why would you have built such enormous structure? What would you really have done it just for for the Jews I'm rather puzzled by this. I don't think I know the answer But they would claim it wasn't done for the Muslims or to protect the dome of the rock Well the Muslims didn't exist for all the five centuries, okay? Yeah point when my hammer died at his revelation supposedly he had a heavenly tour and he took off from this dome in the rock spot part of his heavenly tour Um My hammered visited this dome of the rock or this that particular spot. That's why the mosque is there, okay uh Mohamed 1400 neck I'm trying to write 500 500 I do you know how much five of Mohamed was 500 AD but 5th century 5th century Yeah, he had his heavenly got a heavenly tour and that informed this particular spot So of course historically we had juniors and then Christianity than Islam. Yeah, yeah, right So if so Abrahamic religions as they are called yeah So this very sacred Mosque Should we come onto it? Might be the next slide next Yeah, here we are Yeah, here we are this absolutely beautiful absolutely beautiful Mosque glorious beautiful mosque And it's got inside it this is I mean I would say this was the spot I would say this is the Roman Tenth Legion And this very site here is where Jesus stood when he was being tried by Pontius Pilate how about that? So this is and then the crucifixion was a little away just outside this um So this is a spot with Real sort of story to it and It's got history for both Jews and Christians and Muslims at all three Yeah, yeah, that's why Jerusalem such a sensitive area and it's so important that we maintain the agreement made In 1948 that Jerusalem be shared out equally between these three religions Well, trouble is not declaring that Jerusalem would be the unified capital of Israel today with be be net Yahweh is Sign Well, that is the catastrophe that that is sort of unbalanced everything if the Jews are allowed to sort of take possession of this place um Anyway, let's just say that this mosque has got inside it's got a message inside it around the dome it says um God never had a son There was no son of God. Allah is one and uh There's only one goat and he never had a son You know what always paves of me about Christianity only during my junior high in high school years was iactic with any organized religion the Episcopal Church Right James Episcopal Church in San Pasadena, California, and where I was uh saying in the choir I was an acolyte I was the head of the young people She explained a sermon on you Sunday I would eventually be a delegate to the 14th world convention on Christian education held in Tokyo Wow go. Yeah, yeah in the summer of 1958 after I graduated before I entered Princeton in 19 in this in September Yeah, but that was the whole of it You know, uh, I became very philosophical recognizing the course at the existence of God Nor is nonexistence of God is amenable to prove So that the only rational position is agnosticism You know, that's that's been my stance ever since having no reason to dispute it You have any countered it dealt with many arguments of one kind or another Oh Next slide Thank you. Yeah, yeah, uh, I'll catch him right um Yeah, so in drops out anyway, you see it's very beautiful this mosque and um obviously Muslims are forbidden from any pictorial representation um so uh So yeah, our Christians uh Intusiasic about the mosques were saying that their God had no son what I was leading up to uh Nick is this I was always curious about the Trinity the father the son and the holy ghost and whether we were dealing with one God or three That was a yes for the story right Uh-huh anyway, we've got really that has puzzled you as well, right Well, yeah, yeah um But um I just hope these different religious because I'm fine. Am I getting on together, you know Most of them likely my friend particularly trump is now unilaterally wanting to bequeathed Jerusalem to one among the three. I mean Your word catastrophic is probably exactly right Yeah, okay, let's have the next uh um so uh Uh, okay, well this shows that early image of very early Jerusalem uh thousands years ago um So um Where's the town of mountain relation to this? Well, it's right up the top where it says Mount Moriah Yeah, at the far end. Yeah, you can't see much um and uh So this is what was called David City. This is the very early um very early um It images some of that is this is the same David of David and Goliath or no Yeah, yeah, it's the same day with you um And this would be maybe some Some eight century when it started to to develop Um, I must confess my most adias one of my weakest and shortest suit snake All right I've never been driven though. I like your exploitation for From the point of view of an historian of contrasting What one reads in the Bible versus what archaeological and geological exploration may establish Yeah, he claims made there Yeah, well uh there's a lot of exaggerated history should we have that next uh um Right, okay, we'll come back to the uh this is the main mosque That we just looked at earlier And at the center of this mosque Drought run on the surface. This is the mosque is built over something that's supposed to be very special Right or this of course being precisely what you're talking about. Yeah, is it some bit of uh Well, I was going to say concrete, a very ancient stone. It's very jagged, not even. And the question is, what is special about this? Why did Jews feel that this is where their new tablets got to be? Right? Yeah, it has to do with this particular chunk of realistic. I think so, yeah. Okay, so they think this is a great foundation stone of the dome of the rock. And it's just a jagged irregular bit of rock. And in the Bible, it says, it tells you this about where some of the stone was constructed. That David bought a, a threshing floor of some farmer. Threshing floor is just a bit of flat land where the wheat and chaff are separated. It has to be fairly level. It's a bit of threshing floor. And this is far too, people say it's a far too jagged to be a flesh of threshing floor. And also it's right at the top of a mountain. It'd be much too windy. You wouldn't want somewhere as far as the wheat and the chaff would all blow away. It'll blow away, yeah. So people feel this is very unlikely to be the, some people feel that the place where the temple of Solomon is allegedly built. Now, I'm taking what might be called a minimalist view that there never was any temple of Solomon at all. And there was no Solomon that there was a, so there's eight chapters of the book of, well, there's many chapters in the old testament describing the temple of Solomon. And the amazing fabulous wealth of gold everywhere loads of gold everywhere and loads of seed of wood and amazing luxury. A mere Solomon temple skeptic on the Solomon temple skeptic. Yeah, yeah. No, there's here you have from Wikipedia Jewish tradition views the Holy of Holies as a spiritual junction of heaven and earth. The access moon dive right there. Yeah. Yeah, this is some sort of central position and just getting all ready to build what they call their third temple right here. And I'm saying, Katta got nobody can build a third temple because the first temple never existed. Right. So you can't would it be off historically, it could be the first temple of its kind. There might have been a second temple as in the Persian period, Persian, Persian and by might have instructed them, interesting, build a temple and one God because they had a monophistic religion. Maybe I'm not, I can't say on that, but my impression is that you come into the time of time of Roman Empire, Jesus, come Jesus. And there's, there is some sort of struggle there of the temple which gets destroyed. But of course it's my concern about the Trinity, whether Christianity is truly monotheistic or positive three gods. I mean, I've always been baffled by that. Well, that was a bit later on when it is now coming on, I said there's no trinity. And yet we have the Pope at the way we involved it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so these are probably very advanced now, this preparation of third temple and they're getting ready, the nature of the sacrifices and all the details they got from the temple of Solomon. And I'm going to have to look at what this from there, from Samuel, Samuel and Kings, what's your estimate of what this exact temple has to be like. And I think it'll be very frightening if they do want to go ahead with that temple and they do think they have to destroy this amazing, this glorious, wonderful mosque, in order to build a temple. I thought there's plenty of room up on that enormous square built by the Romans to have the Jewish temple and the Muslim temple. I thought there's room for both of them. So I'm not to encourage discussion between Muslims and Jews, maybe Christians about what the evidence is for whether someone's temple existed and if so, where it was. I'm very, very troubled within this context as you lay out the historical framework, Nick, about what's taken place today in Washington, DC because it does seem to me, it upsets the Apple card in terms of a delicate balance between the three great religions. Well, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what what, what, what, what Jerusalem has given back to the Jews. Now, the Indians are obviously not going to buy this, Nick. Well, it seems to be taught the genocide of Palestinians eradicating all their traditional land. And they are the real sea mites, obviously. But Palestinians are sea mites. They're the most likely descendants of the Hebrews for Bible times. And the Europeans who come over to Israel are obviously not sea mites. Anyway, let's not get into all that. Okay. I just would say that one astute commentator observed that the Israelis regarded as peace when their enemies give up all resistance. Yeah, okay. Next, that's what they're going to tell them. Yeah. Right. Here we have that magnificent image of what never existed. This glorious temple of Solomon. And it's 10th century BC. And in 10th century BC, Jerusalem was just little village that sold olives. And there was no Judea or Israel existed in that time. And 10th century is when it's the Solomon supposedly was. There was a time the Egyptians came and had been part of the Egyptian empire for few centuries. And that was just fading away. And so Jerusalem was quite poor. And it's in fertile area, part of the mountains was in fertile areas. No rivers nearby or anything. So there's a little reason why anyone would be there. And there were other much more powerful cities around in Canaan. So there were relatively few people around Jerusalem at this time. And there was certainly no one kept the building. I said, I'm like this. And there was no real king. And that would be really called a king in Jerusalem at that time. Okay. So there's something retro-spective historical fallacy. They're doing the revisionism to promote a form of precedence that gives them an historical entitlement to which they were not given the real history. For me, it was not a legitimate claim unless you buy this revision of history, right? Yeah. Well, this is what I've been done. But by 60 years of archaeologists, one good thing that Jews have done all around this area have been hunting all the time, hunting for Solomon's Temple, Solomon's Stables, Solomon's Gold, Solomon's Empire, Solomon's Arches, and the haven't found a damn thing. So I think we're now at a stage after so many years of the Shabbat Next Slide, after so many stages, finally admitting there's nothing there. Okay. Here's a modern historian. It's the book, 4,000 years of Palestine, and it just points out that after all researching, the haven't found a damn thing, the Nottingham, the David Solomon did not exist. There would have been a, this, and still David would have been a small tribal leader in Judea. That's quite a good expression. So the big kingdoms were, this time were Egypt and then a bit later on a Syria. But those are the big empires, and the little many states of Israel and Judea sort of popped up in between these large empires. Okay. Yes, would you like me to read this? Uh, well, no, I think it's all right. I think I'm going to, okay. Next. Right. This is, I think, an excellent so-called minimalist historian, Thomas Thompson. I think he's giving a realistic picture of what has been found after many, the sources are archaeology. Also, the letters of kings and rulers between each other. And there are tablets and records that are found in scribe. So that's how the past history is reconstructed. And then that's then compared with what the Bible says. Okay. We'll start to read this out, Jim. Sure, sure, sure. Hayden in 10th century BC, I have argued that there is no room for a historical United Monarchy or for such kings as those presented in the Bible stories as Saul, David, and Solomon. The early period in which the traditions of sent their narratives is an imaginary world of long ago. It never existed as such. In the real world of archaeology, only a few dozen very small scattered hamlets and villages supported farmers in all of the Judea and the Highlands. Altogether, they numbered hardly more than 2000 persons. Timber grazing lands and stem were all marginal possibilities. There could not have been a kingdom for any Saul or David to be king of simply because there were not enough people. Not only the state of Judah not yet exists, we have no evidence for there having been any political force anywhere in Palestine that was large enough or developed enough to have been capable of unifying the many economies and regions of this land. At this time, Palestine was far less unified than it had been for more than a thousand years. Jerusalem of the 10th century can hardly be spoken of historically. If it existed at all, in years of excavation, it found no trace of a 10th century town. It was still centuries from having the capacity of challenging any of the dozens of more powerful towns of Palestine. Okay, thanks Jim, that's great. Right. Well, I think it's just so important that this perspective, and so I recommend books by this chap. And the other person recommends Israel Finkelstein. He's a professor of archaeology in Israel. Two people, I think, very sound perspectives. And in the next century, it's the 9th century, you do get these Israel appearing. And the first king on record is Chakol Omri, King of Omri. Okay, is the first king of Israel. And the capital of Israel is then Samaria. It's called Samaria. Okay, so if you're on the temple, there would have been a temple, some sort of in Samaria. And another place not far from it called Meghido, where the word Armageddon comes from, that would also have had a temple. Those were Israel cities. And south of Israel was the less prosperous and smaller country of Juzer or Judir. Okay, Judir lasted for longer than Israel. Israel got wiped out in 720 BC, it challenged Assyria. So Israel lasted for just over a century. Okay. Right, I'll come over next. Okay, yes. So I've lost the, I can't see the sides. We're good. Yeah, okay, next. Right. Okay, this show, as you can see here, in the 9th century, you get little states, Malab, Edon, Juzer, Israel, around the, that's the Dead Sea, Sea of Galilee. So, so this is, and actually the Philistines, they see people, that's from Greece and Cretans on, that they start to arrive, it has to do with after the Trojan War, that these people start to arrive for the Philistines. Then we actually got weapons of iron, the Philistines, which the Hebrews phoned the Manage. So the Philistines can't be beaten as it were, okay? There's lots of stories about David fighting with the Philistines. The current has been inverted as it were to refer to someone who's a interl· actually vapid, I mean, of Philistines. Yeah. Yeah, so it has to do rocketry now, yeah. Yeah. But anyway, they were the sea people, and someone after the fall of Troy, to try to get more, that they arrived on the scene there. Yeah, they had some weapons of mine. Okay, so this is a century after the David Solomon, I suppose, to exist to it. Okay? And you can see, just get the rough picture. Do you deers down here? Yes. On the Dead Sea, Israel is further north. I'll see you, Galilee. And they're basically west of the Jordan River. Okay? Right. Of course, we were talking about the Tiaith now, we're to the 9th century, moving chronologically backwards toward the birth of Christ. Yeah, okay. Right, next. Oh, that's just another map, just to show you, these little states that's, yeah, to get on on the Siala. Negave desert, right? Modern Israel took a whole load of the Negave desert. Yeah, on the 6th day war. Absolutely, yeah. From Egypt. From Egypt, yeah. Okay, next. This is another quiet from Thompson about just what Jerusalem was. Been a small market town that dominated a valley throughout muster Bronze Age. His relationship to Jude was marginal. The first foot of the fall, and the state of the city, Kegman being understood as a state capital, sometime in the middle of the 7th century. Okay, that's when it began to get populated and look like a capital city, 7th century. Following the fall of Natchesh, Jerusalem was able to extend its financial interest into the southern Highlands and to appearly dominate most of Judah, as it took on the form of an Assyrian vassal state on the fringe of empire. Okay? So Israel had gone by then. Israel didn't last for a long and Judea lasted longer, longer than Israel. So around this time, the 7th century, this is around that the time when the stories would start to be composed. Okay? People say, look, we still exist. So Israel did not even have continuous existence to anywhere near modern time until it was created as an artificial entity at the end of World War II. Yeah, Israel came into existence at the 9th century, so around the 1950s, and it was wiped out by the Assyrian empire in 720 BC. Why was the modern state named Israel? Well, I guess it just sounds good, you know. But the Jews are people from Judea, from Judah, right? That's sort of what they are. And so Judah lasted for several centuries. Would you have been a more historically fitting name? Well, it might have been in some ways. Yeah. And the Egyptian empire phased it out, Rama, got weaker, and the Syrian empire was dominance during this period. And we're going to see now that the monarchs of Judea took their origin from somebody called David. So should we go to the next one? All right. Sorry. I put here about some of this temple, right? Did Solomon's temple exist? And there's a couple of statements in the Bible which make it, I like that the Jews would actually build a temple, or make it difficult for them. But first of all, there must be no grave an image of anything and heaven above all Earth believe. That's part of the Ten Commandments, right? So, so as temples supposedly had these carvings, golden cherubim all around them, placed all around all the walls, which would have violated that commandment. Okay? So Jews are not supposed to grab any, grab any, grab an image. And also, they would have image, memories from Egypt, of wonderful stone buildings being carved, erected. And here the commandment is, use unnatural uncut stones. No, as they can pile up stones, but they must have cut them. Do not shape the stones with a tool, but that would make the altar unfit for how many years. But the wailed wall is obviously cut stones next to the wall. It is, yeah. Violation of this commandment from God. Well, the Jews didn't make that at all. I don't think their claimants have made it. But here the statement is that if they make any, if they make any temple or, or, or, or sort of monuments. Right. Of course. Also, they did. They did. Right. So they were violating this injunction, only the Romans or whoever. Yeah. It's basically just saying you can pile up some stones for a hudley place. Yeah. But don't cut them. Yeah. So, right. Okay. Next. Okay. Sorry, I'm jumping about a bit. Right. This is the evidence, the one bit of evidence for the existence of David. Something called the Telldown Steel, which is found right up, very near the north of Israel. And David is supposed to be a hero in the hills of Juteer, which is way down south. So there's a long way from where David is supposed to be. And you can see this, this carving says a very early alphabet called Aramaic. It's from this the Hebrew alphabet develops, right. And there's got three lessons, DWD, which are said to be David. And the word is the House of David. Right. That could just have been his home, right. Well, it could be all sorts of things. Yeah. But some. House of David could be a whole family, a family tree, a lineage, but it could also mean a structure. I see. Yeah. Allying, a single family, Dwellie. Yeah. Good meals, those things. But so it seems that kings of Juteer, trace their origin, claim they came from some lineage of David. So I thought I'm like out, that is the claim of the kings of Juteer. So this fellow in the 10th century, it looks like he did in some sense exist. And the lineage of the kings of Juteer came from him. Okay. Right. Next. Okay, this is a good book, which I think gets to the real, and that's real David, who likely gets to, the real life and invented here, Charles Python. And some. Here is the, I see the subtitle, the real life of an invented hero. Yeah. And here, I think it's the brilliant Israeli archaeologist, Israel think of Stein. Do you want to just read out what he says? Sure. Whether by cunning intelligence or extraordinary historical circumstance, he alone of all the now forgotten rockians and freebooters who roamed the rugged country between the Dead Sea and the Judean foothills established a dynasty that ruled for the next 400 years. Right. Okay. So he had a tough, he had a gang, a sort of gangled sort of rage. And it was good, especially good at taking other people's wives and bumping them off. That's several times in the Bible. Right. Like, beer. Was it? That's Shiba. What's the name? That's Shiba. Fancy other people's wives. And then, Yeah. The arranging for the arranging for the husband to be disposed of. And then he's, I think he's a modern gay icon. He says that, um, Oh, David, the modern gay icon. I know. Yeah. What is the gay community? Yeah. When he says that Jonathan, his love for Jonathan was greater than that for any woman. I was another male. Not a male. Yeah. So, um, uh, but then, uh, and then they take to a more sexual, well, you can't tell the course, but it just says that. Um, and, uh, as a fighter, he's sometimes fought with the Philistines. Most of the time, he finally don't see the Philistines. But sometimes he changes over and fights with the Philistines because they're fighting against Saul. I think Saul in Israel. But he was, he was a great warrior. Yes. Yeah. Great warrior. And a philosophy of sort of, uh, killing people as a solution to last problems. Yeah. A great warrior who is a gay icon. Some of that, some of that. And yet he also took other men's wives and disposed of them. Yeah. Yeah. So, he appears to be bisexual by this account. Well, um, some, some of that, some of that. Yeah. Anyway, I recommend this book. If you want a picture of, uh, how he, uh, if he did get controlled with Jerusalem, the story is that he somehow got into Jerusalem and took it over, isn't it? Maybe a personal hero of Henry Weinstein. So, I'm not that. Yes. Henry Weinstein. Okay. Next. Right. Now we come to the real, also a mystery. I mean, the word be Weinstein. Forgive me. Yeah. Okay. There's the real, so I'm jumping around a bit. We come around to the real mystery of the, the Wiling War at Jerusalem. Uh, if you get permission, if you go to Jerusalem, try to get permission to go down to the basement and take a tour, uh, about 12, or 12 meters below that ground level where everyone's crying. And this is the actual basement of the Wiling War. Okay. So this is one of the larger, the huge stows. Yeah, this is actually gigantic stone. You can see 11 feet by 41 feet. So where is something five or six hundred tons? And uh, how could they even move it around? Well, that's a mystery. I couldn't even move around. Um, so, uh, and, uh, who originally made this war? So I think this is much older than Roman. I think this is some Moe Glyphic construct. Um, and, uh, I'd like to try and evaluate how old this war is. Um, I, I don't think the Romans could do stuff like this. Okay. So the next. Right. So I'm venturing people making comparison with Balebeck in Lebanon, which are similar enormous stones. These ones are larger, even larger than the ones you see in Jerusalem. About 800 tons. These, these stones we're talking about. Yeah, these stones are structure in Lebanon. In Lebanon called Balebeck, yeah. And you can see huge, um, huge pillars remaining there. Uh, again, we've got a mystery of, uh, of where these stones come from, uh, and who made them? And, uh, uh, so I would say there's some sort of Moe Glyphic source here. Um, and, and, and, uh, older than the Romans. And, uh, I think it's very wrong that Jews are somehow taking a cell over as if it's somehow belongs to them. Okay. Next. Right. This is just another picture of Balebeck. Uh, uh, someone could make these John stones. Um, wow. Wow. They're huge. Yeah, it's quite, quite, quite enormous. Okay, next. Um, right. This is another, another picture of that stone, uh, we looked at earlier. It says it's 500, 70 tons. This is the way we roll again. Yeah, wangable. So, um, in a way, what, what, what do you think of all those little holes could that have been to put, uh, what wouldn't slat? Some sort of wouldn't just, uh, in order to carry it? Well, no, it wouldn't have been some structure there. Um, uh, arches or we don't know. The trouble is this wall has been broken down and rebuilt so much that, um, maybe nobody can properly reconstruct it, you know, but some, yeah, anyway, bits of wood would have fit in, for the fitted in there. Um, uh, okay, next. Right, this is just another, another pass of the wall. Um, yeah, I must say I'd love to be able to visit this. Uh, I don't think I'll be allowed to that. Um, but, uh, No, no, you, you, you'd be, you'd be rebuttoned as a holocaust in dire. Oh, sure. Yes, yes, yes, yes, well, there's so much pass history here. Uh, and, uh, I think there is an effort going on to, uh, to, um, resolve the pass history. Uh, and, uh, I think we need to try and do this without Jews feeling that they've got a right to, uh, build a temple in the exact, for our spot where the, uh, Muslims have got this. What I think, or dictate history based on mythology and theology. Yeah, yeah, that they've, um, they've got a fictional history, which Christians are not accepted by 2000 years about this old temple of Solomon. Does it, this is partly the Christian Zionist tradition too, right, to buy into all of this regardless of the science and archaeological findings? Oh, yeah, but it's general throughout Christendom. That's a, uh, this old Testament is inspired and so you've got to believe it. And especially at Freemasons. I think Freemasons are really into the whole mystique of this temple of Solomon. And, uh, so I think we need a realistic historical perspective to, um, sweep away. He's old. In the role of the Freemasons in history as an untold chapter of enormous proportions. Yeah, it asks a couple of centuries since about Icinghundred. Or, so, including Danic, my impressions are and Masonic influences vast. Is it? Yeah, yeah. Well, it's kind of hidden and hard for any politicians to control because I've hidden. Um, but, uh, they believe in all this whole lot of Jewish mystique about Solomon's temple, uh, as if it's some are holy or sacred. And, um, I think it's bad, bad for humanity to believe in something, uh, in a way that didn't exist. Uh, I mean, Solomon's temple is in a way, uh, image, a mocked up image of the glory that was Egypt. Yeah. If you wish, say the Hebrews had some memory of ancient Egypt, there really were glorious temples with loads of gold everywhere, but they're in Egypt, not in Jerusalem, okay? So is it as a way of proparing a part of the great history of Egypt to make it as though we're a part of the history of Judaism? Absolutely. Yeah, you got it. You got it. Fascinating. Yeah, I mean, Egypt really did have tons of gold coming up from the south, from the now, loads and loads of gold. And that is transformed into the story of Solomon and loads of gold. Egypt had a great culture, in other words, with many extraordinary achievements that was very striking contrast with the meager attainments of the Jews. Yeah, yeah. And also, uh, Egypt developed horses and chariots, a great deal. They bred very fine horses. And later on, the Jews were good at emulating that. So in the 19th and 18th centuries, uh, in, in my case, I, for example, they did build up horse stables and ported horses from Egypt and sold them onto Syria and so forth. And that was a thriving business. But the idea that Solomon had some sort of, because that just mocked up. And it's taken from it as it were, Egypt. It's not real in terms of anything that some was in Judea. So that, and also the idea of loads of wives, Solomon had loads of wives, you know, in the storybook. Well, the Egyptian Pharaohs did have quite a few wives, you know. So the whole thing is just transferred over from Egypt, including, including vast heros. Including heroms or was that a turkey? That heroms, yeah, vast heroms, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's an Egypt for the Pharaohs. Yeah, you see, Egypt really did have an empire from the north of the Euphrates. And the Bible then pretended that David and Solomon had an empire from the north of the Euphrates. Fascinating, fascinating. You know all this greater Israel stuff you get nowadays. Of course. From the north of the Euphrates, right? Yeah. That is, that is, that is based on this fantasy, that the empire, David and Solomon once had an empire from the north of Euphrates is, and that absolutely never existed, right? Very, very deep in searching as a critique of this Israeli imperialism we might call it. It's not an imperialism. Yeah, yeah, you got to do them. Yeah. So it's important for us to deconstruct this that what Jim didn't exist, you know. It is a thriving current of the out. Drime and current events, yeah. Yeah. There was a glorious empire of Egypt. The Golden Age Egypt had this amazing empire. And it was based on exchanging gifts and goodwill and stuff. And I mean, there was a goal to spread about. And um, not the original shooting Palestinians for support. No, no, the idea that David, this sort of free-booting, thanks to that, he could go up to the Euphrates and take an empire. I think it's very damaging for people to believe historical fixture of this kind, you know. Nothing of the kind existed. Um, I think it's an enormous importance, Nick. Yeah, so if we think of that diagram we had in the 9th century, that is when it begins to exist. Israel and Judea are a little many states. And then around the 7th century when only Judea still exists, you start to mock up a glorious past, right? Yeah. And if I may give a historical analogy, in this country, there's a terrific mistake of Arthur, right, King Arthur. And you can't, yeah. I mean, right, and he's completely absent from history boxes of King of England. He really wasn't a King of England. But Welsh, the Welsh did have a King Arthur in the 5th century. Some of these really in the Welsh history books, okay? He's on the Welsh history, but after UK history. Not UK, no, no. So in the 12th century, in Glastobry, the monk decided the King wanted a glorious past, right? So they made out all the stories about Arthur to give this newly established monarchy, which come out from France and Normans, to give them this glorious past. So it's a mocked up story that. It's important to realise that that is a glorious past that is mocked up. And I think that the Hebrews did something rather similar. I mean, Hebrews come from Hebrew, Hebrew, which are sort of roughions, bandits, and untrustworthy people. Parts and farmers who are allowed to fight on buts inside of a war, and you can trust them. And this gives them that they got the story of a glorious past from mocking up this history, Jim. Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. Right. Okay, now we've got this nightmare prospect. They're going to mock up this third temple, so-called third temple. And what would it be like? Well, who knows. But some. On the temple mount. On the temple mount, yeah. They had to destroy one of the most precious treasures of all Islam. Yeah, one of the precious treasures of all Islam. They're going to just want to destroy that. For the benefit of a mythical Jewish history. For the benefit of mythical Jewish history, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Okay, next. Right. So this will be very destabilizing if they do put this temple up. And so I don't know if you've heard any about it, Jim, but some. Some. And any time things don't, some say you guys, you know, I think I'm. I think this was not displayed today in Washington, DC. Was that all right? I suggest it was you had in Bibi Net, yeah, who have praising Trump, Trump talking about Jerusalem being the unified capital of Israel in a host of other issues that are going to be intolerable to Palestinians and indeed to the broader Islamic community. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think this is very, it's very bad moment for the human rights if they, if they get this idea of Jerusalem being their capital. Historically, what I've shown is, historically, I don't think Jerusalem ever was the capital of Israel. It was the capital of Judah from about the seventh century, eighth, seventh century onwards, right? It's a couple of Judah, five, so three centuries. And then that was then walked out by the Assyrian empire, okay? Assyrian. But it was never capital of Israel, yeah. Nick, I think you brought us whole circle down to the events of today in Washington. And it's very, very troubling when these circumstances, everything is put into the proper historical framework. You can see the grotesque injustice of what's being proposed. Here, by the President of the USA. Yeah. Okay, Jim, well, I hope we're that's that we've explored masterful to carry us through the history and join us when you juxtapose scientific research, archaeological excavations and real historical understanding against the mythology of the moment and the aspirations to build the third temple. And the proper understanding of history, we have the elements for catastrophe as you well put it. And I'm trying to say they are on the move today, Nick, on the move today. Right. Okay, well, I hope that was helpful, Jim. This is Jim Fatser, thanking my guest Nick Collarstrom, who might admire beyond words. He's younger than I, but he's my personal hero, one of the most remarkable men of our time. I can't take him enough for being here and all of you for watching. Okay, Jim.