Kary Mullis Interview about Pcr Test and AIDS

Video Transcript:

What is it about humanity that wants to go to all details and stuff and listen to these guys like thought you get up there and start talking to me. You know, he doesn't know anything really about anything and I'd say that to his face, nothing. The man thinks you can take a blood sample and stick it in an electron microscope and if it's got a virus in there, you'll know it. He doesn't understand electron microscopy and he doesn't understand medicine and that he should not be in a position like he's in. Most of those guys up there on the top are just total administrative people and they don't know anything about what's going on on the bottom. You know, those guys have got an agenda which is not what we would like them to have, being that we pay for them to take care of our health in some way. They've got a personal kind of agenda. They make up their own rules as they go. They change them when they want to and they smuggle it like Tony Fauci does not mind going on television in front of the people who pay the salary and lie directly into the camera. You can't expect the sheep to really respect the best in the brightest. They don't know the difference, really. I mean, I like humans don't get me wrong but basically there is a vast majority of them who do not possess the ability to judge who is and who isn't a really good scientist. I mean, that's the problem. That's a main problem. I think it was science, I say, in the century because the science is being judged by people, funding is being done by people who don't understand it. Who do we trust? Fauci. Fauci didn't know enough. You know, if Fauci wants to get on television with somebody who knows a little bit about this stuff and debate him, he could easily do it because he's been asked. I mean, I've had a lot of people, President of the University of South Carolina, ask about your feedback down there and debate me on the stage in front of the student body because I wanted somebody who was from the other side to come down there and balance my, because I felt like, well, these guys can listen to me, but I need to have somebody else down here that's going to tell me what to say. But if Fauci didn't want to do it. The first time I really questioned it, I was working on a project where we were measuring HIV in people's blood at this place called specialty laboratories in Santa Monica. I was just in a consultant there. I came in about three days a month and we were working on that. And at some point, we needed to re-up our grant from the NIH to work on that. And I had to write it. And so the first line of that was HIV is the probable cause of AIDS. And I wrote that and then I said, well, I need a paper, some kind of scientific paper, to reference that statement because when you make a scientific statement like that's like a fact. You need to say, here's how come I know that. You put a little one, if it's the first statement you've made and then you've done it at the bottom of the paper, you have a one and you say, here's a paper by somebody that describes why that statement is true. And so I said, well, let me think about what is that paper? Who do I go to for that? And I looked around, I asked a couple of ourologists that come in and they said, no, you don't have to reference. I said, I have to reference that because I don't know where that came from. How do I know that? And it turned out that nobody knew it. There wasn't a scientific reference, like a paper that somebody had submitted with like experimental data in it and like logical discussion and said, here's how come we know that HIV is the probable cause of AIDS. There was nothing left there like that. Nothing. Or HIV CC is the only way. By the time I met Luke Montenegh, I had met a lot of AIDS researchers at meetings and I had always gone up to them. If they taught like they knew about HIV and AIDS, I always went up to them afterwards and I said, where can I find a scientific reference that I can use for my, I said, remember I said I had a sentence there. It said, HIV is the probable cause of AIDS and I needed to have that backed up by something before I could write it and submit it. And I went around and I asked a whole lot of people. I said, well, the people, you know, I can't find it. First I looked for it, you know, just in a computer searching kind of stuff like that. But then I said, got to be somebody that knows this. Go to experts and ask them. And so I asked all these people one after the other and none of them had it. None of them. And that was getting really freaked about that. That's when I first started saying they don't know. Nobody really does. This whole thing is a big sham. It's ridiculous. But then finally Montenegh came to it. There was a special little seminar down in San Diego where of an old friend of Robert Gallos, Flossy Wong-Stull was opening up a department of AIDS research down at San Diego. They had big lots of money involved, federal money. And they had Montenegh come there and give a talk. And after that they had a little wine and cheese thing. And I went over to Montenegh afterwards. And I can't find a reference to go with the statement, HIV is the probable cause of AIDS. I'm sure you can help me. He knew that he probably should be able to help me. And he said, well, why don't you quote this new work, and by new he meant something that came out this year. This new work about a virus that can kill monkeys. I think it was not monkeys. It was like something related to monkeys. Some kind of a baby, a little ape. And I had read that and I said that. And it was like supposed to be going to be a model system for studying AIDS. Somebody had figured out some kind of retrovirus that passing it back and forth between various mammals that could probably put it into chimpanzees and kill them. And it killed them in about a week. There was nothing like AIDS there. It didn't kill you in a week. This is totally ridiculous. None of the symptoms were the same. And I said, well, you know, I read that paper. I didn't see any connection between that and AIDS. I always want to use that as a reference. And I remember exactly what he said, but I know he walked away. Oh, no. Before he told me about that paper, he said, why don't you use the NIH, like the CDC report? And I said, well, I look at that and that was not a scientific paper. And then he said, what about this other thing? This paper that had just come out about a month before and a lot of fanfare, so I should have that paper, but it was total crap. It was like, yeah, if you get $2 million, you can figure out how to kill a primate with a retrovirus. So what? Doesn't have anything to do with AIDS. It didn't look like AIDS. It didn't smell like AIDS. It wasn't AIDS. It was just a gutter retrovirus that can kill a chimpanzee. So what? I didn't get any more out of him. He walked away after that. And the people standing around, by the way, who were his colleagues, there looked at him like they were thinking he should come up with a better answer than that. But he couldn't. He just turned around and walked away. I really thought he'd have an answer. I really did. I was right at the edge of my faith in the system, but I thought, mountain yea will know why he thinks HIV causes it. And he'll tell me. He'll say, because of this study. But he didn't have that. One of those guys have that. And that's why they're so weird. You know, that's why they don't want to say. They don't want people walking up and asking them those kind of questions. And they're willing to go to great lengths to prevent that. They're out on a limb. I wouldn't want to be there with them. The other kind of virus is that he alone on Earth was the master of cause to cancer. There was a certain class of retrovars called the C class retrovars. I was a Bob at Schoen, two little islands off of Japan, little Tini Island south of Japan. There was a particular kind of disease there. It was cancer kind of thing. And there also was this virus there that he hadn't found anywhere else. He hadn't looked anywhere else either. And that didn't bother Bob. He announced that he had found a cause of one kind of cancer, which was supposed to help him get another $500,000 grant from the federal government the next year, because he'd publish something funny. Of all these people that were at the National Cancer Institute trying to show that viruses could cause cancer, he was the only one that had shown it. And the reason he was the only one is because he didn't believe in the scientific method. He didn't even think about the fact that you can't pin causality just on the fact that the two were there together. I didn't cause you. We're here together. What about all these other people? I could say, maybe he caused me. Maybe all of you caused me. I don't know. But if I say she caused me, because we're here together, everybody would say, fuck that. Well the National Cancer Institute did not say fuck that. They said, here's another $500,000 grant from the People's Pocketbook. Go ahead and do it some more. But Bob suddenly got a message from his friend Margaret Heckler, who was the Health Education welfare secretary, friend of Ronald Reagan, who was part of the Inhomosexuals, picketing in front of the goddamn White House. He said, every time I come to work, I feel like I start wondering if I'm one or two. Get him out of here. Margaret, don't we have some kind of building down there in Bethesda, where they do science? Yes, we do, Mr. President. Well you tell him to fix it. So she did and she went down there and she taught to Bob and he said, I got it right here and I also have these cool wraparound sunglasses. Let's have a press conference. So there you got Bob and I think, Alan Alder, I think Nicholas Cage is better Bob Gallow, you know. We found the probable cause of AIDS. A pause, a pause, a pause. And America, by the way, found it just a little bit before the French, has it actually turned out because it takes about eight months to get from France to America. We hadn't heard yet that the French had actually found the virus sometime before and Gallow announced it as though he had found it. Turns out he's stolen it from Luke Montenier at the Pasture Institute and that's not been straightened out and Gallow doesn't get any money for it anymore. Although he got a lot of money for it at first. You know, so we've already figured out our own government has told Gallow is a crook. He is a thief and a crook, a liar. And also they're saying, don't kiss deeply because you might exchange Gallow's imaginary virus, which we believe in even though Gallow is almost dead. And he's been told, everybody knew that Bob was a lying bastard, everybody who ever went to one of his meetings knew he was greedy, ambitious, and just a kind of person who might step down into some kind of crap like he did. And he's already pretty much disgraced except for the fact that he's got a lot of money from our government. But the government itself said you can't have any more money from that, Bob, because actually it belongs to the French. You know you stole it, right? That happened. That was a court case that was not too long ago. Bob Gallow has been his credit. He stole it. But he's fusted it off on us and we didn't think, well, it was stolen goods, man. And so we don't want it. We want to ruin our lives with his stupid concepts that don't even really, they're not reasonable to call them concepts. I mean, if that virus caused anything, it causes a real simple word to understand. It means without that virus you can't have this. That causes this, right? That's the perfect situation for science to deal with. Willis, just see if we can take that virus and nothing else and cause it. Okay, well, we could infect everybody in America and count up the bodies. But that would be a very, you know, not an economical experiment. So we can look back at what happens when people get it. And looking back at science, it doesn't have any big effects. There's no way that you can write a report that says this study right here showed conclusively or even probably that HIV was the cause of this thing which is so complicated, it's hard to call it by anything more than a three-letter word. AIDS. Is that for? I guess it's for. It's like it's done. It's goddamn thing. I can't believe that you people are so stupid, you know? But I came down here. I said, I'm not going to Earth again. Those people hadn't gotten any brains, you know? But I was sleepy because I'd been taking drugs. Now, I mean, how can this planet have that kind of mentality? Because we are the same people, I think, you know, that like, well, what did we do? Cool. Let's see. We have good movies. We do make good movies sometimes. And we have a medical system that's a huge dragon. You know, I being a part of it don't ever go to it. I don't care whether I have medical insurance or not because I don't ever partake. I like drugs, but I don't like doctors. I don't like the whole system. I think there's something very scary about people wearing white things like that, you know? It sort of reminds me of church. And I think scientists in church are something you ought to think about because they've gotten to be sort of the same. I mean, the Catholics pulled out sort of, and the scientists have moved in. And the AIDS thing, and this is what I think, we're here in the nice summer air. Let's don't talk about disease. I mean, just nobody's there's not something called AIDS. There's a lot of people with a lot of different diseases that have all been hoaxed into thinking that they've got this one terrible fatal thing. And Christine sure has it, you know? And she's going to pass it on to the rest of us. And we all do have that one. But we don't have this other stuff, whatever. Some of us have bad cough. Some of us have got fungus is growing all over the summer. I had some fungus is growing on me. If I'd have been HIV positive, I'd have to turn myself in. So I've got AIDS because I've got things between my toes. And I've got some spore knocks and it cleared it up. And so I don't have AIDS. I may have HIV, I'd never checked. I wouldn't either. You know, I wouldn't either. I wouldn't try to figure out if I'd ever been a member of the Communist Party either in the 50s. I don't think I was. And I'm certainly not going to want you to check in it right now, because I'm applying for a job. It's the same kind of thing. It's a terrible, a purgative kind of a thing. And people will talk about how the test doesn't work. And I said, but you know, all the details about whether things work and whether it all fits together, whether hemophilia, really have AIDS or whether they just have an immune suppression thing, whether Africa is still afloat when it should be all dead people stacking up the last, the last up and there should be stacking up the corpses of the rest of them. Haiti should have been totally wiped out. All of us, there should be 20 million of us with AIDS by now. See all the predictions turned out not to be true, didn't they? They still have the old beast. They also still have in California, I think, an association, a bunch of goddamn bureaucrats worried about the drought, worrying about whether my shower is going to run or not how fast and all that I can get to and a half gallons. We got those guys at the same time as we get federal money for floods. And last time I checked the reservoirs down in San Diego, they were pretty full, but I still can't take a shower legally. You have to drill the little thing out. They put something in there, right? That's the government puts it in there. They protect us from being thirsty in the year, 2007, but part of government, they've also told you, see they don't really have a reason for being, do they? What do they do? Make up one. Think of something to scare people, same as scientists. They don't have a reason for being, you don't need them. I mean, you need some technician type people, you need some engineers to make better stuff to work with, to play with, but you don't really need somebody telling you about the deep mysteries of the universe unless maybe Carl Sagan wants a week. But like, you don't really need us. But you worry that maybe if you don't have us, it used to at least the Russians might get there first or something like that. They're gone. So then what are we going to have to deal with? Nature. The big threat is that we're destroying the planet and you need the scientists now to tell you why and how you can stop it. And the plague is such a great little thing to pull. I mean, polio had warned them, admitted. The CDC, nobody knew what the hell the CDC was in 1975. And by 1980, their budget was definitely under review. And the head of the CDC says, there's a memo intercepted by the Freedom of Information Act. The discuss is we need a plague. A plague is what the CDC needed and that's what they got. And now they're already warming up the next one. They're talking about Ebola virus, like it was something brand new that had happened because of the ecological crisis in Africa. And it was going to get us. And we have to be ready to mobilize the CDC, put their uniforms on. You know, those guys have uniforms? They have uniforms. They don't wear them, but they have uniforms. In fact, when that critter with the funny beard was the head of a, like our big doctor, the big doctor in Washington, he, he, he said, we're going to have to wear the uniforms at least once a week because keep people reminded that we're army. Those guys are crazy. I mean, they are. They really are crazy and the things that they dream up are stranger than things that we would make, it would make good movies. They're just, you know, this virus is mad because we've encroached on his habitat. So now it's going to come out and get us. Well, they don't have legs viruses. Don't have legs or wings or any kind of way to move. And they don't give a shit about us. And they don't crack care about their environment. They never heard of that. And they're just sitting there in some place and they've always been there and they always probably will lurking around, but they're not after us. And we're not making a mess out of this earth either. We aren't. We're arrogant, little bunch of naked apes. It's all we are. And we're crowing about this horrible disease that's estimating our planet and paying all these people's fortunes and taking poison, just things. I mean, we're dumb. Why would the viruses care about us? I mean, I mean, maybe they care about the whales. I bet you, if there's any problem on the planet now, it's the ants. OK, because, I mean, and I'm straining a field here, but I'm telling you, we're not just talking about the details of the HIV positive test or this pretty little invention of mine that fixed me up good. I mean, if you don't like it, it certainly set me up. I mean, I didn't do it. I had no idea about AIDS at that point. I was thinking about other things, but it did fit right into there. And I liked having done it. But it's like, everybody else has got to have their own kind of thing like that. Tell us how you found out how you found out what the blood, the blood, the work you were doing for the LA blood bank. I discovered that there was no evidence that there was HIV at the age of he called days. OK, I might say this is my personal story, but I mean, the general fact is there isn't any. And you can check it yourself. You can go to the internet. And you can say AIDS cause return. Go on out to vistas and like that, bang, you'll get papers. The first 20 hits you get out of those, it will probably be about six or seven that suggest that there is no evidence. OK, there will be not a single one that suggests that there is evidence for a causal relation between those two things. Now, when I was working down the street here, it was down that way, down toward Michigan Street, a place called Specialty Labs, I was working for those guys three or four days a month. And I was setting up tests to look for viruses like HIV in the blood supply for LA. And since there were so many people in LA, it was going to be a pretty hard to see how you're going to test all the, all the best about thousand bottles every day. So we had put a lot of effort into it and it would be, we've been successful. And I was having to write that up for the people who had paid for it, which is your representative government. And I was writing this little paragraph and I said, well, I've got to explain why we're doing it in the first place. So I said, well, HIV is the probable cause of AIDS. That was my first sentence because I thought it was because that's what I'd heard. And I hadn't questioned it. I just heard it. I said, well, if all these people think that's true, there's probably evidence back there somewhere that suggests it. And so I asked somebody what reference, what little work of scientific reporting should I quote so that somebody interested in finding out why I thought that could find out himself. The guy that I asked was a wrong person. He said, you don't have to quote that. You don't have to say everybody knows it. I said, well, I don't know why I know it. I just know that I heard it. And in a scientific thing, it's a lot different from a movie where you have to do is have a character say something you want to have as a fact. In a scientific publication, you are required by the system, not by the editors of the journals because they let you get away with a lot of crap sometimes, but you're required by the elements, the scientific things that have made it work to always tell the person that you're now telling something new to where you started from. You say, I'm starting here. I've worked to there. So we move one small step. But if the place I started wasn't, if I don't even tell you what that is, you don't know we've moved anywhere. And you can't trust that. I have to tell you where I started from. In that case, I couldn't find it. I started asking people. I started getting real uneasy about it after about a year because I still hadn't written the damn thing and it was due about a month from when I started it. So it was real late because I couldn't finish it. But I started asking people all over the world because I started traveling all about that time because everybody studying AIDS wanted to use PCR. That was my invention. So I got invited to all these meetings and I tell them how to do PCR. Well, I didn't care that much about AIDS to begin with, but I started caring after I realized none of these people went ask directly, privately, sweetly, could come up with anything to help me out. And all I wanted to have was one scientific paper to quote that I could say, this is where I got the concept from that HIV is the probable cause of AIDS. And I thought at that point that that's pretty damn significant because there was a tremendous amount of interest. And meetings 10,000 people gather in Amsterdam, you know, 10,000 people gather in various cities around the world every year to talk about this work they've been doing at our expense, to cure this disease which they've created at our expense, really. And not a single one of them can find a quote that I could use in a simple little paper to the NIH. That's the National Institutes of Health that said, the reason you guys sent us 50,000 bucks for this project is because HIV is the probable cause of AIDS and it would be a good idea to see if it's in the blood supply. All right? There's no way to support that statement. No reason to do that work. It was always the time except that I enjoyed. I love to drive from San Diego to LA twice a month. It was I made a living. And if you think about that, that's where all the scars are making a living. But I changed the question after a while because I was getting no luck with what should I quote. I finally said, when was it that you came to the conclusion? Because you must be because you just gave a talk about AIDS and HIV. When did you come to the conclusion that HIV was the probable cause of AIDS? Personally, when did you come to the conclusion? And they would generally allude to some paper or something that they had read or whatever, but no one has ever been able to explain to me anything else than I heard it in the New York Times or on TV. That was that fiction or was that fact on TV? It didn't bother anybody to even think about it. I don't know how it is that we all overlook real obvious things like that. But you know, we've done it before on this planet. We do it regularly. It's expected of us to be idiots. I've got a new disease to attend to. I need a drink. Okay. Let's remember that AIDS is in fact. I mean, and if you look at all this stuff together, if you ever take a philosophy course, like an introductory one, I took a bunch of them because they had girls in them and that my chemistry course is it barely didn't. So I straight over to the philosophy department a lot. And I thought this is the most useless information I've ever, but there are some nice reasons to be here. So lately I've started realizing that this whole thing brings out from like Christine's story, you know, to Paul's, like I'd say, he's kind of young still. The Georgia Tech boys were not, you know, I'm one too, but I've aged and matured. So I don't jump on him. I'm a libertarian, you know, by nature, but I've become more and more so as I've realized how little I really know about things, you know. And it is not a good idea, I think, to try to find another cause for AIDS before we have found out whether or not the one that the world believes is true, and which has caused them so much disaster. See, the cause of AIDS, supposed, the HIV, has caused a lot more trouble than AIDS itself. So the thing to do is to don't worry about AIDS right now, it'll go away by God it is going away and it will continue to go away unless the government raises the anti, you know, they're paying $2,500 a year to every county for every age patient. So it's a good reason to have AIDS in my county if I'm the health guy because it's my budget. Like if you think about how many AIDS cases they can claim to have in LA, multiply that about $2,500 and think about how many cars and stuff you can buy with that, you see why there's an impetus for like, say, if there's anybody that looks anything like an AIDS case, call it AIDS. And don't you listen to Carrie Mullis, he's against the state and humanity and your daughter. But AIDS is going away, nonetheless, and if we stop funding it, it would vanish overnight. HIV, however, is something we can detect and people can make money for detecting it. And as long as when they detected in someone, that person is pretty much cast into an incredibly bad place in which they will be injected with our coerced to take hideous drugs. Their children will be taken away from if they won't do it to them. I mean, that's the side of it that we need to worry about. It doesn't make a damn what causes AIDS, really. But the question that we should be asking is why have we decided that having HIV makes you our favorite Jew, Nigger, Smoker, whatever we want to jump on, right? You're the perfect one because you brought it on yourself while you're a lascivious behavior. Something like that. See, we need something like that because by God, they took away all of our other things like that, didn't they? Those goddamn Democrats. You know, you can't call people names anymore except you can say they're a real HIV positive. And you can tell your kids if you don't eat your cereal, you'll grow up to the HIV positive. And all that stuff. I mean, we're used to that's the thing I think we ought to think about here. Whether or not AIDS is caused by it or not. But even if it were a cause by it, how do we deal with something like that? When maybe it's causal for the very few people that actually get it. See, the people that get AIDS are a very small group compared to the people that have HIV. Maybe causal for those people that get it. Maybe that the rest of them just don't have the right chemistry to get AIDS when they get HIV. That's a possibility, which means that AIDS is kind of a genetic heritage that makes you susceptible to some virus that most people can tolerate quite well. That's an alternate hypothesis. Given that that's true, is it fair to stigmatize all of the 99% of people that have HIV but don't have AIDS with the concept that they are going to die and you better give them some lethal drugs to hasten the process and get them out of place. I mean, is that all right? I don't know. Maybe if you're homosexual, you should just be killed right away too, because you know, you might have it. You might have it. We got to check you for it right away. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't do that to you today. Or you just like, Sivius. So am I. I hadn't had one because I don't go to them. You know, you shouldn't go to those people. You know, you go to witch doctors. They're going to put a hex on you. Now, if you can prove in your mind that our doctors aren't witch doctors, then look at the definition of witch doctors and see if it doesn't fit. I mean, if you want to go to those people, go ahead, but don't expect them to treat you well. You know, why would you think that they're going to treat you well? That's a neurotic claim. We all know that lawyers don't treat you well, don't we? Do you come up? My lawyer is so bad. He sends me a bill. You know? He sends me more. I mean, he tries to take me for a ride. We know that about them. We know that about ourselves. Don't lay yourself at the feet of somebody just because he puts on a white robe and makes statements in Latin. It's not. That's not a good. It's not that medicine doesn't have some good things going for it. They've got drugs. That's for one thing. Sometimes those are useful, but they're not made by those guys. Those guys don't even know how to write the structure of those drugs. Those are made by chemists. You know, we don't go to chemists to find out whether we should pee at the right places or have sex in this way or that. You know, chemists don't know either. The doctors certainly don't know. I mean, we are living in a pretty weird planet here, but it shouldn't be that weird. They really shouldn't. You go to some one profession to get the products from another profession. And the one profession tells you all about all that stuff about them. They don't know anything about them. The other one doesn't sell them to you. They sell them to those. You know, it's like it's a funny kind of a thing going on there. A chemist who makes AZT himself can't go out and buy some to take. Same thing with any other drug. The chemists are making them. The chemists don't get to prescribe them. Why not the doctors make them? Because they don't have the sense. They don't know how to do it. The doctors don't know how to make drugs. They buy them. And if they've got anything else, I'd like to see it. You know, what is the difference between our medical people and which doctors? It's drugs. Now, they don't make them. They have an economic way of being the only people that can give them to you. And they make money out of doing that. And they act so cool. You know, that they really are worthless bunch of bastards if you're sick. Okay. You only need to stop talking like that. Oh, okay. What do you want to know? I'm sorry. I just want to say, yeah, at this point, since it's getting long in the day, you guys have got an idea. If you have any questions, if you want to open any dialogue, please do so. Please know that this is an open forum. And if you have any proof that HIV does cause AIDS, please show it to me as soon as possible or anyone else here. But other than that, this is a safety net. This is something I'm putting out because I believe that if you tell enough people, enough people will care. Enough people are good, true, and beautiful human beings. To be honest with you, I am disappointed that not more of my own colleagues, actor friends that I had invited that said, I'll be there or not here. But one is actually David Gray. Thank you very much. And Christopher, I mean, there's a bunch of you people at Polonia, but there should be more. There should be a lot more. We should care about this because we dish this out, unthinkingly to the world. And I think it is our responsibility, first and foremost, to finally go through this educational process as uncomfortable as it is because it's worth it. Because if what we are saying or suggesting is true, the implications are humongous. They're terrible. Then we are living in the belly of the beast. And what do we do about that? I don't want to take it sitting down. So if any of these meetings brings back one or two people, it would have been worthwhile for me to put them together. Because one or two people is exactly what we literally got the last time we held one of these. And one of those people is Laura Shapiro. And I thank God we put on the event because without Laura's help, so much necessary work would not be done. Because Christine is pregnant. And Christina Robin and the people at Heal only have so much. We did not choose to ask you for money nor is this oppressive because we think that the integrity of this information stands on its own. And at some point, you will be compelled to join forces in whatever way you can. At some point, you will be compelled to talk to your rich friends about this, to talk to your celebrity friends, to tell people, you know, just hear some of this stuff. Just read this information. Just see for yourself. Please gentlemen, any questions, any thoughts, anybody want to share their experiences or anybody have a problem with what was discussed here today? Yes, sir. Do you believe that there is a rise in since the 80s in immunodeficiency syndrome, whether or not I'll be labeled under the blanket of AIDS or whether or not HIV necessarily be the cause of it? But that certainly there is something that is attacking the immune system and killing people. Or do you believe that it's no more than his ordinary or that has always been happening? For one thing, I've never been able to quite figure out what an immunologist is talking about when he describes the condition of having antibodies to some foreign virus as being an immunodeficiency. Do they mean that you can't make antibodies anymore? Do they mean that your immune cells are dying off if your CD4 cells are in fact useful to you? Maybe they're right. Nobody has really shown that CD4 cells are necessary. So I don't even know if immunodeficiency is the way I would talk about the changes in the ratios of CD4 markers on immune cells or CD8 markers. That's what they usually measure. Nobody had ever measured that before the 1980s and nobody has ever shown that that alone really has any kind of clinical significance. Maybe they just go up and down like the tides and it's really not something to be at all upset about. So just somebody puts a laminar and says, if you got less than 200 CD4 cells, you're sick. And then they start giving you drugs that kill your CD4 cells. That could have the effect of making it look like it was a bad thing in the first place. But as far as what are all those little funny diseases like cryptococcus and new illnesses to scarineia and caposi sarcoma and those kind of things that we've lumped under this term age, and also uterine cancer has been stuck under there. Except for uterine cancer, which I think was kind of like a very transparent, like the motive there was transparent. We need some more women with AIDS, right? So that was a good way to get some women. But except for that one, I say all those other things really the way they came about in the 80s and the late 70s were as a result of a fairly experimental lifestyle. What particular aspects of that lifestyle caused them? I don't know. It's hard to figure it out for any one of them if you were to really pursue it and say, I'm going to figure it out. Why that one? Why new illnesses to scarineia ever happened? If you could disentangle it from all the rest of them and get some research funding to try to find out why certain people die these days of new illnesses to scarineia, you probably could. It's probably just another goddamn disease. It was a result probably of a type of a life that had not been lived too much in the 40s and the 50s and the 60s, and probably not much ever before. Whether it was the drug use, the lack of sleep, the poor nutrition, the tremendous number of contacts with other humans and sexual contacts is simply the least of those, by the way, the gregarious contacts of any kind with human beings will get you the flu. These viruses do not respect the gender or the genital organs of us because they're such small things and so very seldom used. They go for our lungs. That's one of the first things they made the mistake. Why do they think it's just a venereal? Because we don't know any viruses that are. Varses, they don't live here because they're fat and rich. They live here because they're lean and clever. As you go for the genitals, when you could be going for the lungs, you're pretty dumb virus. Because we blow air out and you get in an elevator with something. You know what? The CDC wouldn't want to be saying that, but they don't have any evidence at all. Now they've said, deep kissing on the kid basis of one person. But the disease is real, but it's not a disease. The fact is real that when you start having a life that pays very little attention to the stuff, your mother and your grandmother would have said, you got to have this, you got to have that. You can go out and go out and be a Democrat if you want to, but you got to eat and you got to sleep. And they would have said, I mean, you stop doing those things, which a lot of people did. In a really large, big way. I mean, the people who live next door to me in Berkeley started looking real sick. A few years after they started coming over to San Francisco at night to the bathhouse. And I don't think it had to do with the disease they got. I think it was because they didn't eat or sleep. And drugs figures into it because the only way to live without eating or sleeping is to take them fattamains to stay at work and to take downers and stuff to go to sleep between four and six. And then you don't have much of an appetite and you get skinny and you get pale and it's fashionable. And so it's okay. But that will lead to diseases eventually, probably, unless we're real lucky. Also in our history, we've never had the sexual and the psychedelic revolution the way we had it in the 60s. It's definitely neither one were harmful. I would rather let that alone. We don't have anything saying either one of those things were bad for us. They were emotionally involving and we see things like that big close up and important. Okay. I think nutrition and sleep are the first ones. Psychedelics and television and whatever. And sex, if you want to get into that, but sex has been around a long time. Didn't seem to hurt us. It's back necessary. But the combination, the bad, if it turned out to be lethal, wouldn't it? Yes. The question about increased immune suppression, certainly there's been an increase in HIV testing since the early 80s. Right now, a third of the people who develop AIDS in the United States didn't have any immune suppression or any other AIDS symptoms until they started taking AZT. So certainly that's one factor that didn't exist prior to the 1980s, the consumption of AZT, which I'm convinced is a cause of AIDS and maybe the primary cause of AIDS today. I just wanted to say too that something that was really revealing to me, I was at a plus seminar where I'm no longer welcome sponsored by L.A. Shanti Foundation. And I was there learning about what it meant to be HIV positive, how long I could expect to live. And at that time, they granted me five years. And this was based on a slide that we were being shown. And the slide information was gathered from something noted in an asterisk, which was the San Francisco gay men study. I had looked at that before I was at that seminar that day and had noted that the people who originally studied in creating this HIV AIDS hypothesis were this group of people that had also been involved with experimental vaccines for hepatitis and had had many incinerate venereal disease infections, had had parasitic infections, bacterial infections, amoeba's parasites, hepatitis A, B. I don't know if they were doing C back then or not, had not practiced good nutrition, had not done anything that would remotely keep them alive. And the fact that they were very, very ill, completely depleted and on their last legs of living before anybody ever bothered to give them a diagnosis of AIDS was never mentioned until I raised my hand and said for those of us who haven't lived like that, who haven't spent 10, 12 years on antibiotics and done crystal meth a whole lot and gotten everything with an idiot and anemia on the end. What does this information have to do with us? And the doctor looked at the floor for a few seconds and said absolutely nothing because these are a very particular group of people that were studied to come to this HIV AIDS hypothesis and the mistake was very great in trying to say that everyone would become sick like they did because they did a lot of things to make themselves sick. Yeah, also another thing is what we see on television and newspaper reports as the spread of AIDS is not one criteria. In other words, before 1987 they had a different definition so that in 1986 you had more deaths of AIDS than in 1987 it started peaking already. I think people realized the lifestyle, they closed the bath houses and a lot of people started taking much better care of themselves. So in order to lay the fears that this thing would be going down or to change the impression that this was being conquered already, they changed the definition, added a whole new set of diseases brought up the number of T cells and all of a sudden overnight it doubled the amount of people that were now considered AIDS. Now if we keep redefining this thing including more and more diseases, in other words growing the net larger and larger, we're not finding something that's truly growing, we're growing the criteria with which we measure so that's not, it's deceptive. Let's another question or comments? You got your saying something over there. I was really familiar. You said there was lady over here. So what you're saying is that immunodeficiency in human beings of course exists. I mean it could happen to anybody not necessarily because of their sexual partners or drug transfusion but then isn't there in effect no cure for AIDS? If it is something like because of your lifestyle or the chemicals in the water or this or that is beaten down an individual's immune system and I'm not grouping anybody, not a homosexual, not a drug user, just an individual that has had their immune system so weakened because of their lifestyle. Then there would not necessarily be a cure or even a place to look for a cure. There is, but there is, it's in looking at the individual because what is called AIDS in one person is called, and is called AIDS is another person is a completely different thing. If you're a woman, you test HIV positive and you have a yeast infection that's called AIDS. If you're a man and you test HIV positive and you have pneumonia that's also called AIDS. When we're not looked at as individual people, we all get the same treatment at toxic chemotherapy called AZT. When you're looked at an individual, you get treatment for your pneumonia. Now a regular normal person whose test HIV negative receives pneumonia treatment and they're told to go home, take a rest, take some time off work. They're not told to fill out your will, get ready to die, sign up with an AIDS organization. It's all over with, nobody's going to want to touch you again, check out. That's where the problem is is we treat everybody the same. There's 30 different illnesses and conditions that are listed under the category of AIDS. AIDS is not a disease as many people think. It's a category just like I was doing an analogy with someone the other day, housewares. You can't hold a houseware. You can have a blender or a dish, but there's no such thing as a houseware. There's no such thing as AIDS. There's only the blenders and the dishes and the pneumonia and the tuberculosis and all that stuff that goes in there. If you treat the person who is sick and leave alone, those who have simply tested positive and well, there is no, let's hope for a cure, let's wait for a cure, let's pray for a cure, the cure is here. You can restore an immune system that has not been taken so far astray by the destruction of the bone marrow and the spleen and the liver and all that other stuff that AZT and all these wonderful drugs that AIDS organizations bring us and push on us. You can get better. There are many people who have and many people who stay well once they stop doing that. You also need to, in a certain sense, get rid of what's in here, which causes a tremendous spiritual death. I tell somebody they're going to die the lights go out. There's no hope for tomorrow and every morning when you get up, I went through this. My hair is falling. Oh my God, it's a cancer pimple. It's not a pimple. You expect the worst of everything and in this paradigm of AIDS, there is no way out. Everything is called a result of HIV and I'm not joking. I read an article once that said, a buildup of ear wax is symptomatic of HIV. There's a young woman who calls the pregnancy stories again. I'm collecting them. This woman who called us, who's pregnant and she just had her baby. We got her off AZT luckily and the kid was actually born and born without the typical hole in its chest or six fingers or had to be therapeutically aborted or aborted itself. The child was born and we hope it's going to be all right. In her subsequent visits to the doctor, she was told that the moles that she had developed during her pregnancy were symptomatic of HIV. I'm in a prenatal class out in Seamy Valley. Half the women in there are whining about moles during pregnancy because it's something that happens. Their names are Tammy and they've never tested positive. So nobody puts this crap on them. But it's a very hard thing to live with, to be told that you're supposed to die and have everything that you turn on television and every magazine that you open tell you that too. So you've got to recover in two ways. One, find a doctor that's going to treat you like a human being and two, get enough information to believe that you have the right to be here and get well because you can. Yeah. Is there anybody else? Yeah, somebody who's HIV positive can get over their yeast infection just like anybody else can. Somebody who's got pneumonia and is tested HIV positive can get over their pneumonia. Just like in a video scan, the trick is don't get into the system that pushes chemotherapy on you. Cancer patient does not get chemotherapy every day for the rest of their life. Nobody here is going to get cancer chemotherapy as a prevention of cancer that may occur 10 years down the line. That's what's screwing people up. That's what's making the difference between getting better and getting dead. I would also like to add if I could real quickly. And it may be semantics for a lot of people in here, but at least for me, it's extremely important. I think that it's very necessary to be cautious with the kind of words that we use. This cure is a silly notion that feeds us all into a path along what Carrie was referring to earlier when he was discussing the why you're listening to the white coat and you're looking to him to do something. All we need to be concerned with here is healing. And no more do we talk about healing. We talk about the cure. Be here for the cure. Well, there isn't going to be a cure. There's healing and that's all there is. And I think that we need to be very, very careful with how we've I spent many, many years of my life trying to find something that was killing me. There wasn't anything there. And in that process, there was no healing occurring. There's no one that's even specific to HIV. I was going to ask you about the virus that has been passed on to the children of pregnant mothers, of babies born to. Are you saying that the treatment that they have received is what has created AIDS? The babies that are born to women who test positive oftentimes will test positive when they're born. And that's because babies are born without an immune system. That's why the World Health Organization tells that if women around the world would just breastfeed, we decrease the rates of infant mortality tremendously because they would avail themselves to the mother's natural protective system, which is becomes the baby's own for a while through antibodies. So the babies get antibodies to everything when they're breastfed and sometimes just through, you know, being born and all that kind of stuff. When the kids test positive for antibodies, many times they're put on AZT and other drugs that yes, turn them into AIDS victims and kill them and deplete them. If left alone, 70 to 90 percent of these kids will test HIV and a body negative within the first 18 months of life as they develop their own immune system. Plus even if they don't test HIV negative after 18 months, it's not said that that won't happen further along the way. Many children have, there's a couple who adopted a Romanian orphan and took her a while to start testing negative. She's fine, but she was put on AZT for a while and it caused tremendous pain. She stopped growing. She got sick, her hair was falling out. The usual chemotherapy. She had AIDS. She had AIDS by virtue of the prescription of AZT. But it's a terrible thing when we live in a country that says, if you're pregnant, don't have a beer. Don't take aspirin. You know, don't take anything and stay away from second hand smoke, but load up on chemotherapy because somehow that'll do you some good. And it is completely wrong. And the focus of many, many AIDS organizations is pediatric AIDS because it's kind of a safe, warm, happy little place. It's all about babies and stuff. Well, these people are slaughtering babies is what it comes down to. I mean, it's really sad and awful, but that's what they're doing. They're telling mothers that they have to take these drugs and these drugs are lethal. If it's not Thursday, it'll be two years from now, but the kids will suffer from this. Based on, by the way, fraudulent studies by the makers. Again, we have, but Glaxo, welcome Burrows. Welcome. Testing AZT to check maternal transmission rates. Well, previously, they were like 25 or 30% naturally. Then they said, well, AZT brought them down to 8.6 or 8.3%. And this is why my friend, the doctor, which faxing me this stuff because I asked medical doctors, please, anything HIV just show me what they show you. Well, we've got to put pregnant mothers, all HIV positive mothers, when many of them don't even pass it on. Now, what they don't tell you, which I think is unconscionable, is that vitamin A cuts it down to 7.6. Vitamin A does a better job at halting maternal transmission rates than vitamin A, ZT, but they can't control the patent. So guess what? You have to take the filth that they can make money off of. And I think why aren't our politicians and media people talking about this? This is why, well, most of them don't know. So don't feel comfortable receiving unofficial information. Now that you would have should be concerned if your baby's HIV positive or try to cut down on the rates, since there's no reason to think that having HIV is a bad thing. Would your question, why are babies getting AIDS? Was that the question sort of, was that what you were talking about? If it was the AZT that was giving babies AIDS. Well, I mean, do you remember crack babies? Yeah. Crack babies were before HIV came along. Then after HIV came along, they started calling them AIDS babies. So yeah, there's a lot of people that have severe health problems, a lot of drug users, no matter what is causing their health problems, Gary. And I'm not suggesting that you do consume recreational drugs, by the way. What were those leaves you were eating, by the way? What were those leaves you were eating? They right up here. They probably have pesticides all over them. They probably went out of white. I just make an appointment. These are the people that are in these groups tend to be positive for just about every germ that you could possibly imagine. And if you look at the early age studies, the AIDS babies were born to mothers, for example, that were positive for hepatitis A, hepatitis B, cytomegovirus, herpes 1, herpes 2, herpes 3, herpes 4, everything. And then they came up with a new germ, HIV, and they're the other positive for that as well. So yeah, there's a lot of HIV positive babies who are sick before AZT comes along, but look at their mothers. They were drug addicts for their first nine months after conception. So that shouldn't surprise us that babies born to mothers who take drugs are sick. There's a whole other insidious aspect to this, and we'll wrap this up as soon as they can. But let's just take Paul and myself. We go in, we get an AIDS test. They're looking for the antibodies, well, what they're actually looking for are reactions to the proteins of the antibodies. So if you have been exposed to those proteins, your blood will say, wow, I've been exposed to P41, P26, P124, and those are the proteins that make up HIV. What they don't tell you is that those proteins don't only go to make up HIV. They go to make up other antibodies. So if you have enough other things in you, you can add up to a total that looks like HIV, either fully or indeterminate. Now, here goes back to the test. Paul and I, we go into the AIDS doctor, he takes the test, we come back with the exact same results. Each of the proteins, like half of them, that go to make up HIV, are positive, and we have the exact same results. It's called indeterminate. They're not enough, not few enough, not too much. At this point, the doctor refers to the medical literature, which has, because of the tests sensitivity, we have to ask you questions to make sure this isn't a false positive. Mr. Philpott, are you gay? A fifth-classer? Yeah, no. Mr. Philpott, have you had lots of sexual partners just saying, hell yeah. No, no, no. Mr. Philpott, are you married? Yeah. Mr. Philpott, do you take drugs all the time? No, no, no, no, I don't take drugs. Okay, now, he goes into, Mr. Philpott was a false positive. Now, they'll ask me, let's just say hypothetically, issa, or... Do you ask the questions? Yes. Are you gay? Well, for the sake of this argument, well, only on weekends. Okay, that's gay enough. Are you married? No. Have you been doing drugs? Injected drugs. Well, I used to shoot up. I used to take poppers, but I... So you probably HIV positive, then. There you go. The same exact results. If you're black, that adds up to it. You know, it pushes you. This is ridiculous. But this is what you and I have allowed to go on by not testing this any further. Is there anything else? Do you guys... Is there any question in your minds about what we're saying? Because there's a lot we haven't covered. To answer this question, yes sir. I only asked this to Carrie. How do they misuse PCR to estimate all these supposed three viral RNAs that may or may not be there? I think misuse PCR is not quite... I don't think you can misuse PCR. The results, the interpretation of it. If you can say... If they could find this virus in you at all, and with PCR, if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody. It starts making you believe in the sort of Buddhist notion that everything is contained and everything else. Because if you can amplify one single molecule up to something that you can really measure, which PCR can do, then there's just very few molecules that you don't have at least one cell. You don't have at least one single one of them in your body. So that could be thought of as a misuse of it just to claim that it's meaningful. But the real misuse of it is... You don't need to test for HIV. You don't need to test for the other 10,000 retroviruses that are unnamed also in the subject. Somebody that's got HIV, generally, is going to have almost anything that you can test for because they have definitely... HIV is a fairly rare virus. There's only one million of us out of 250, 300 million people in America that have that virus. So you have to get around, either your mother had to have it and pass it to you, or you have to really be paying a lot of attention to people that do have it, and paying only attention to them, and get a pretty good chance to get into that way. It's hard to get it, but if you have it, there's a good chance... You've also got a lot of other ones. Because you've been in the market where you've been... It's been possible for you to get a lot of... To test for that one and say that has any special meaning is what I think is the problem. Not that PCR has been misused. It's not an estimation. It's a real... It's a really quantitative thing. It tells you something about nature and about what's there, but it allows you to take a very meniscus amount of anything and make it measurable and then talk about it in meetings and stuff like it is important. See, that's not a misuse. That's just sort of a misinterpretation. Even after all these PCR, this quantitative PCR, that if you just get down to a basic biological count, it's still one in a thousand to one in ten thousand HIV and one to one in a thousand... One in five hundred to one in a thousand T cells. It is. There's very little of what they call HIV and what's been brought out here by Phil Potton and East I already. The measurement for it is not exact at all. It's not as good as our measurement for things like apples. An apple is an apple. You can get something that's kind of like... If you've got enough things that look kind of like an apple and you stick them all together, you might think it's an apple. And HIV is like that. There's tests that are all based on things that are invisible and the results are inferred in a sense. PCR is separate from that. It's just a process that's used to make a whole lot of something out of something. That's why it is... It doesn't tell you that you're sick and it doesn't tell you that the thing you ended up with really was going to hurt you or anything like that. That's why it's not... So even if you believe in HIV, you can't tell the difference between virus particles or active live virus. I mean, there's a lot of questions involved. Guys, thank you very, very much. I don't know what else I can say, but to let you know that we will hold more events where people can get together. Hopefully not when they're all out of town for the holidays, but when we can have a really, really continuing and a growing movement of people asking simple questions. We don't expect to convert anyone. We just expect to plant the seeds of doubt and concern because this affects us all, gay, straight or not. It affects us all. I'm tired of being terrorized. I'm tired of sex equaling death when in fact it equals the opposite. I'm just tired of having my tax dollars taken to terrorize me and the rest of our citizens in the ring. Guys, I think I owe a thanks to our panel. Thank you. Thank you.