Interview of John Spalding, James Forrestal's Navy driver

Video Transcript:

I'm John Spall. John Spall, is a SP-ALB. A-L-D. SP-L-B-I-N-G. Oh, yes. Kind of like the baseball. Yeah, holding baseball. Can I leave it? Never had the money. Okay. It's trickling for sure. Well. How do you get the money? I'm going to get the money. I'm going to get the money. I'm going to get the money. I'm going to get the money. So, did you explain to him? I was a little bit interested in Spall, then you both you guys have researching him. Yeah. I haven't been to Spall and Winston for a few years or so. I'm a 4-star guy. I am. And from the last two years, actually, I'm the first person that's really written anything serious on his death. And I don't know what. Let's get your background a little bit further. I'd draw the name of it. It was in the Navy at Princeton University as a sculptor. You were a student at Princeton. Attached at Princeton University. Attached to it. By the name. I'd say, okay. Okay. See, there they have us. Maybe ROTC. Yeah. Maybe ROTC. Yeah. And the commander barked in exactly the opposite of the ROTC program. And that was a very good friend. He said, the ARK year, the ARK year, there's a real Navy family. I let him down to Cuba. He took me for my first submarine ride and he was very good friend of our family. But they were very family at that time. And I was over his house drinking. This has double the story. But he was telling me body was going to get divorced for real life. And we got a phone call from Cat Richards. It said, far worse than all of the other land out in the commercial field, which is about 10 miles from Princeton in about 40 minutes. Yeah. Excuse me. Good morning. No. Thank you. And we were sitting there drinking the description tape. And I had to head for Louisville because we were talking about what I could take in the Cuba. I bore him for the trip to the South. But anyway, he said, I'm not going to pick him up. Because I don't know how to drive. I just said that. You know, I didn't want to pick him up. I didn't even go to college. No one worked. I'd go out. You were secretary of David. And we had no trouble later. And he said, well, you have to pick him up because I give you a water. So I would have to burst your field. I didn't do anything about secretary of David or anything. This would have been about 1945 or 1945. That's so 44. 44. Okay. Yeah. The war I have now. That was up there. And when I put the first board in the car, he said, I gave his first door and shook my hand. I said, I'm John's Paul. But I said, I'm very dumb. I don't know how to drive. I don't know anything. I was told that you're about to pick you up. And I said, take you to present the job. House. And he said, that's all right. They introduced me to Captain Erick. Very admirable. So they got the car we drove in and there. I think I was with him about four days, grabbed around, printed it. I got to know him. He talked to him and I was surprised. What I mean, I didn't know it. I played double sale. I didn't want to know anything about all this. So he said, how would you like to go to New York? He said, some of the school is almost over. He said, I'd give you a place in New York for me to drive me around New York. I said, hell, I don't know. He's about New York. I said, I'd be out in the form. I said, I don't know anything. He said, I don't help you. That was surprising. You know, here a man like I'd say that, which was very true. And how long was it, but he transferred me to New York. How was he show food? What was your rank at the first class sports event? He always promised to make me chief. That was a college event. He never carried out. But he was just one of the men that I would do. I mean, I would take him to Beckham College of New York. I don't know anything about New York. One thing I do the most side highway in the East Side, as long as you could tell me that, I'd have a guy deal where he'd go. But he would set the back seat. As a car, we had the Major Boone's limousine side in the Navy at that time. And he would set the back seat. My God, he would tell me exactly where to go. And if I'd taken him up to Boone's mooks, he'd take the first time. He said, five miles out of road turn right. And he never looked up to me at paper. I mean, I'd just know this stuff, you know. But you know, I was telling him, I said, I used to get them all of the newspapers in New York and keep account of it, a little black book I had. He would pay me. He would pay me in the exact set. Never anything over it. Did you meet his wife and family? Josephine? Yes, I did. Did you notice you had a drinking problem? Yes, I believe it was really. He didn't like her. He didn't like you. No sir. So he'll call me up one day. She said, John, would you take me to the department store? I said, where? She said, the penis. I never knew about the penis department store. And I said, yeah, I'll pick you up. I'll take you. And she'd treat you to be good. At least she always gave me something. Would I go anywhere? I think I only drove her many a couple times. But I took her that day. Of course, don't found out about that. And he told me, don't you ever do anything more for her? You forget her. She's out of your life. And I just thought, there's been a chance to call me a record. Take her somewhere, but I would always have this juice or something. But he'd never like to. There's something he doesn't know why, what happened there. He was describing this and working all of it. He was just married to his work. And he happened to be a few noticed that. But he told me, I doubt. Don't quote me a gift. But I take one time. He said he'd graduated from Princeton. Would he do it? Exactly. He was one credit, sure, one course out of it. He graduated. He went to work for Dylan Reed, stockbroker. And he said he had $42 in his pocket or $72. And he said a year later, I was a million there. A year later? A lot of money, too. There was a lot of money. I mean, I didn't know what a million dollars was. That's really so bad. I'm pretty sure that. He said, John, I don't know how this conversation never came up. But he had $42 or $72,000 in his pocket. He had no money. We see a guy and then I don't know. No, no, no. No, no. Yeah, no. He said a year later, I was a million there. So he must have made it to Dylan Reed. He made a lot of contacts when he was at Princeton. And he was an editor of the student newspaper. And he met a lot of people on the court in the biography. So he traded on all these contacts that he had made at Princeton. A lot of families are rich people. And that's what you want to sell bonds to. But he was also extremely, as you say, intelligent and hardworking. And that's how he was so successful. He was a good friend to Dylan, who was president of Princeton. He always stayed at his house. Clarence Dylan was there. He was telling that Dylan? Well, but Dylan president. A president? No, I don't think so. Whatever it was. I'd come by used to always go. We were in a riot there. If we could have New York, I would always go good here. And then we had the ball of Hagen Hague, Stockton Tigger, or Tom Gettin told. Now did you go to Washington DC after that? We spent the whole time up in New York, New Jersey. That night I was just sidestripped into him when he was in that area. That she would let put you to worship you. That's what I was transferred to New York. And I was stripped of it. And then you come to New York, and Washington had his wisdom. You said that he met often with Bernard Baruch. Oh, yeah, by Baruch, it was a postmaster general, Farley. Farley and Farley, yeah. That's the thing. He was a very good friend of that. He always had to take care of the day. And maybe he had a pertinent everstand, a centering about. He was a pertinent everstand. He was one of his Wall Street contacts. He took to Washington to work. When I was entering about. He was a very good friend of the day of the league. Far from New York, you should stay at the Wall Street. A lot of times he stayed rich. He was a different between there. I never forgot one time. We grew into back there. A World War for Storch, and the Pope was there on the visit. And everybody kissed his ringer, saw it. I stood there like a dummy. I mean, there was a hell of a pisser. It was all about you know. And he kept his brain. Everything got out of his eyes. And it was like, next time you see him, you do the same as they do. He was very blunt and everything he did. This guy came to watch you, but he did. We did that way. Did he go to church, John? Did poor or so good at church? I don't remember. There's the name David Miles, maybe. He was a Jewish guy who was the belt administration. And the German administration on New York Paul. Very liaison to New York Paul distance. And David Miles. The one reason Bell with the years listen to is that he's a priest. That was all the television. Yeah, yeah. Full of the show. I don't believe it. He was in television. I was filming. I'm trying to film. I have to take a look. I have to be in New York. I was not far to college. No. He had you for long. He was a Jewish advisor. Who was a Jewish? I read it. He had a Jewish advisor. Mark Suleva. There's nothing in England. No, Suleva. Well, I had these days down. I remember. I didn't know if Secretary Kate Foley had a secretary named Kate Foley. Kate Foley, the woman. Barns doll. Yes, Secretary. I do admit that she was in big city. I think she was in Washington. How about Maurice Sheehy? He was a clergyman at Catholic priest. Maurice Sheehy. Is that name where you know that Maurice Sheehy? No, he had a Jewish advisor and he had a priest. He would call on New York. They were together and all the time. They were both young and two. I'll put you back to him time. Did they all three meet at the same time? The three of them met at the same time? Yeah. And you took them there? Yeah. They didn't go. Well, they meet there. Where did they go? Where did they meet? They used that to walk over the story of a rich club. He went to the Metropolitan Club lot. And they used to go there for lunch. When was the last time you saw Forrest of? The last time I saw it, I don't remember the dates. But the only thing I ever knew was I was called down to Admiral Kelly's office at Donner Church Street. It asked me, he had a big back there. He said, where do you want to go for duty? I said, what do you mean where I want to go for duty? He said, where are you going to leave tonight? You're going to go pick out the plate. Anyplace you want to go. That was after he died. That pretty jumped out of the window. That date with the test. When did you find that? But when did you last see Forrest? All those Truman Presidents? Or was Roosevelt Presidents? When you last saw him? So he was Secretary of Defense at that point. Oh, the Secretary of Defense. But you were still driving him in the New York Times? Yeah, I guess so. I guess he was a Secretary of Defense. Did he ever talk about anybody following him? No. He never heard of it. Did you notice any change in his manner? Did he? Yeah. You made a speech at Madison Square Garden. And he left he speech in the car. But that carried it out. And for all the people and threw it on the podium, told him, that David Captain, which is David, gave me hell. He said, do you think you are a third of the stuff? And the Secretary of Defense said, or Secretary of Defense? He gave me hell. I never liked him. And he went to prison after that. And Admiral Richards, I mean, had that Captain Richards president, that president, head of the ROTC program, had a party for the admins and stuff at his house. What do you do while we were there? When I get out of the car, there was sitting on the patio. There's a big French school, as you can wide open, you can see in. And I saw a forest, I'll pick up peedets. And throw button catch me in the mouth. And I thought, what's going on here, you know? And he could not make this statement to me. He said, John, I could have anyone in there, talk about the admins, all these different admins. He said anything to get to his, but if that's you do anything. That's really sick. Very further, right? That's correct. That was a funny thing. That's what he thought I saw. But that was the only change in the meter. He seemed to be the same guy the whole time. Up until the last time he saw him, he was the same straight forward, in control of things very well. You didn't, you know, they talked about how people never see, he became more anxious for all of the discontent of paranoid. You didn't notice any paranoid, Annie. You didn't notice any excessive concern about anything that seemed to be eaten at it. You didn't notice any nervous habits like scratching it, it is, it is foreign. You don't remember he had any nervous habit like that. I mean, there was a lot of it. Okay. I didn't tell him he was on his under pressure from Trillin, Trillin sucked him. But he went to Bethesda. Yeah, see, but he supposedly had a breakdown the very day that he left office. And they took him down to Florida, where his wife was vacationing on the estate of Robert Loveitt, who was an undersecretary state, who later became a secretary of defense. Robert Loveitt doesn't ring a bell. That name, you don't remember Robert Loveitt? How about Artemis Gates? Yeah. He knew Artemis Gates. You don't recall the contacts, they were right. Probably one of the people. Well, he was a great friend of that McCarty. That McCarty, he was an A.A. R.N.Y. She was an A.A. R.N.Y. He was a vice-adulter. She was a very good friend of that Baja. How about that? I'm Secretary of State, I'm sorry to recall him. No, no. He told me the other thing, that Robert Loveitt, the first time I was told, don't you ever open the car door for me? If I can't open the car door, take it out myself. I don't need nobody help me. I never forget one time he pulled up at the end of the war, but the store, yeah. And I'd have a car just stood there. I can't think he was there. But this day the captain come over and gave me hell. I mean, really gave me hell. Who do you think you are? You listed manned by not opening the door. You far-store heard him. You talk about getting your ass re-empted. War is still re-related in that captain. So don't you ever tell him what to do or anything like that. He took that as a personal thing. It was very funny about that. So he was consistently throughout the time he knew him. Just that same time, he was a straightforward shoulder guy. He seemed to be very much in charge of things. But one time we went to a lake, not long out. Which was very richy. But you saw his house in Long Island, huh? He had a big mansion in Long Island, did he not? Well, it was a large-store store. I was there. Oh, you were there. Or it was a little mansion. Do this next 12. I never morning we left New York about 5 o'clock in the morning. He was very talkative that morning for some reason. I don't know what. But anyway, he said that, well, first of all, when we go with him, he get out and change clothes. And the pro-combat to me, it said, how's he doing? He's in a good humor and a bad humor. I said he's the same as always as far as I know. I thought he was going to get that thing. But anyway, I walked out in the golf course while he was puttin'. And he missed the puttin'. He gave me. I don't know how to do that. I told him, I don't know what happened. I had a white uniform on. And he said, John, he said, next time he walks up back to me, he said, the software. He said, you didn't sound kicker ass or something like that. He said, you made me miss that puttin'. That made the pro-life. He just taken it back himself. That's pretty standard golf and talk. Yeah. Anyway, about it for me. I went in and it's very important thing. And they said, the mate from D.C. came over to me and said, what we have to eat, everything else. And I got a little flage steak, a couple of potatoes, and some kind of vegetable. Well, hell, I was young, I was young. I was hungry. So I ate that. And I ate another one. I said, give me another order. I said, I'm hungry. And then I went out and sent it to the... The Johnson Doctors Play Baseball had the Cardinal important. That was another, that was a funny thing. First, don't walk out. He came over to the Card to me. And I was sitting there and he said, you really enjoyed your lunch today, didn't you? I said, what? He said, what you enjoyed, you had two servings. Just like, he wouldn't be the pay for that meal. That's where he was. He was cheap. Oh, he was cheap as hell. I mean, every day he said, he's good there. I bet for five minutes. Just look at me and look at that bill. Just like, he wouldn't be the take me down by talking to people. I didn't say no. He was acting up. Do you remember the day with his business manager at some of my article? The business manager. The other guy was a John Gingrich, who was one of his associates. Did you know John Gingrich? I'd shot him from there. He was one of his agents. I was asked, I want to ask you something, John, did you recall that Mr. Forrest all had any enemies? Other than his wife. He ever talked to anybody about people that were given him trouble? He ever talked to Bobby Shaw. Come out of Stuart's signing something. That shot to me was... What did he do? He was in the air, of course. What did I expect from the air force? Stuart's signing something. I think he was with us one time. But somewhere that we get there. I mean, the biographer said that they were enemies. Signed me to him. And Forrest could be... Maybe you don't remember that. You'd call anything negative he ever said about anybody? Come out about people that he wouldn't talk about as the barriers to you, that wouldn't be. You know, that's what we're talking about. That's what we call... You know... How about favorable? I mean, did he reflect on his meetings with Saib Bernard Baruch? Well, they were the friends. Sure, a friend. I thought... I don't know where I got this idea. But I thought the first time we went to Baruch's estate, that they would then run Forrest all for president. I think the way I got that idea. There were also talk about that. Forrest all of us took care of me. We went to... With Gibson to see that book we gave you. One day we would drive along. We would forget who was in the car with us, one of us. And hell, this truck turned right into me. Coming right this way, made this turn. And I had to drive off the road and get back as small road would be tapped to be there. And he jumped up the paper and he said, what's going on here? I said, didn't you see that truck? I said, almost hit us. He said, I'm glad you're alive. You pulled out. We went on up to the regatta. There was anything else. And he would always have a room for me. And he had a room. I forget what that book was. But to me, he said, John, I don't have a place to stay tonight. He said, how many beds you have in your room? I said, two. He said, you find the place to stay there. I said, no, I don't find the place to stay there. And that would be in forest talk, I'll go down about that for somebody. And gave that a hell. Don't you ever. Don't you bother him. That's his room. That's not your room. You find your own place to stay. And you have to get one that boy I was. He was a vice-aggressive. The forest told Ray Stell about that. You had your assignment with him up to the end? Yeah. So how, let's ask time you saw him. How much before? I don't remember. A couple of weeks ago. I tell him, how long was Truman present when the viewer is contact? Right. The little thing I remember about Truman was when David went to Bethesda. And they were hospital. And Captain Holden met him at the front door in Sherbrooke. And he said, now show you the present after shoot, sweet. We went out, took the elevator up. I don't think it was a 13-4. That's every member where it was there. But anyway, the elevator opened up. And it was in this way, it rooms. The elevator was a crap game, what on. And they almost said, I mean, I have sailors with air. I dare to get that guy shooting dice. Hell, his arms stuck out like that. What was the reason for going to Bethesda and they were hospital at that point? I mean, when did you see that some kind of a sweet tear was shot in? That Truman Bajair. Truman met Barstall there. I remember that. Before Stell was in the hospital, they told me, no, they went to visit. You don't have any other, how many months before? No, they don't have any idea. Okay. That's first time when War's first, but they didn't. I remember right in Truman. Truman said, what's going on here? He said, you guys ought to have a lookout. He said, you're sailors in dumbness house. Truman was an army man. Yes, Truman's army man. These guys were all, I never saw such a, never spoke to sailors in my life. I like to, nobody knew what to say. We had that blanket, they had some kind of a barrier and we shooting the dice again. Truman said, give me the dice. We don't buy one the hand of the dice. I can watch you out, certainly I want to finally take the dice. He said, give me, come in. You're going to, you're stuck so there. You're going to start. Yeah, I'll start. All right, so like you're, you're going to start there. I don't know, I had $10 bill or $20 bill, but he said, I want give me one. And they gave one. Truman signed every one of them one, whatever he got. They gave a teach guy and he shot the dice and then picked them up. He said, remember, the next time he said, act like somebody said in the army, always have a lookout, every walk down. That's all I remember that day. That's up to, that 20 time I ever saw Truman was forced to with you with a, yeah. Farstole was in the party. Farstole didn't say a word. He just said, back to, he didn't say a word. I make people in your group. A shooting crap in your group. Well, it was Captain Hogan. He's exactly an officer. And I guess it's about time at Benador. I don't even know what the hell I was going to, I don't know what I was going to. Why did it? Because I didn't, I didn't mind about 16. That day I looked at my life. That's curious. Why would they be listening with us in the hospital just to see the presidential suite? Well, we just sub-reached it. You don't know the real. What did they, what did they do afterwards? What was the next thing they did? After they had to do it, yeah. What did they do? You were in the crack, you were in the crack, you were in the crack, what did they go? They had to really, they all went down and they had lunch. That, that went out to the car and that's what I did. We always talked about the truth in that. That's what I do. I don't remember if the end later on, I bet that when I was on the USS Omaha, we had to have a guy on there by the name of Brown. Very smart. He was a first-class pharmacist, mate. And I didn't see him for a long time. And he was attached to Truman. He went to the White House. He'd been achieved the next time I saw him. I mean, he was attached and he didn't want to talk about Truman. He always had to look bigger, but everything, when they called the special labor board, he was the, say, the Navy, when they go to the field for the call, they always rounds, rounds, but he said, Truman always kept a ball of whiskey in his dispensary. And he would have to, he called Brown, and Brown always give a shot of whiskey when it is round-toe gr. He had to double kick out of that. And you think of some other people that you met with Farah Stolk, besides Bernie Brueg? No, just, just, just the most bastard Jack Lalkin and Farah was in there. Some people said that his, his phone was tapped or his phone was bothering, he was being followed around. Have you ever heard anything about that? No. You never mentioned it. Don't speak because the phone might be bug, or there might be a bug here or something to be careful with. It's all right, no. Never. Maybe Lig would have a party for him. He needed to walk up the story or to its problem. There was always plenty of whiskey in Scotch, and I guess he put it before. And he would say to me, after I've gone, you make sure you get that, get the whiskey and stuff. The food is stuck, go and take it home, and enjoy yourself. Well, I had the big strut, the strut, the whiskey and anybody knew me. I used to go ahead. You were talking about Walter Wittschilder, a group person, and I don't think you liked one of them. I think it was a group person problem. They were in the radio at the time, I think. Did you ever talk about them? I actually remember some of it later, you know what you had? Not to yourself, if you suddenly fell back, you later, you later, you may have taken cover back. And the same way, how about the Amelia Earhart, who does appear to be the most famous person in the world? I remember mentioning that. This is a picture I see pictures of, they quote the good atmosphere at the time of your name when you were born. Yeah. What do you remember these pictures taken? 1940. Baby. Did you ever mention anything about the war and the Pacific to you? Did you ever talk about the war? Not to say it's a good Japanese surrender. No. You know, coming on the dropping of the bombs, do you recall, after the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, did you meet with them after that in any time? I knew that he went to a stomach bump test. I told him that his speech writer was a first class showman at the video's name. And Barstall said, take him to a good to name in the shop. Get him an officer uniform, they make him as a tenant, jump him to first class to a tenant. And he was going to bring him to that. The atomic bomb test. And he got uniform, remember that, he jumped him from first class showman to a tenant. Do you remember seeing Forstall after the end of the war, after BJ Day? Yes, I believe. I can't remember the years. Well, when you went with Forstall, that was what was still going on. You made that Princeton all over the world. It was over there. So it'd be about 45 or 46. And you were within that until 49, right? Yes. And then the ship I was on, I was on the US, let's shout and repressonc by the Japanese. We were picked up and taken over to, because they were tied, how did the captains, we had a captain on the other day, but he was the king. He said to me, John, we went through hell or something. I said, we didn't even do so much hell, because when you left the bridge with a signal, you sent your house to go down and get you some orange juice. I said something like that to the captain. It started bringing me back with the rest of your survivors. He shipped me off to the amphibious forest. But, what day I was in the war? Well, here was that 44. 44 to 44. And I never liked him. And, but, yeah, I like him. I think these days. Did he tell me he never ate survive? Yeah, I don't know. And some, well, I don't know how to think. And one day down the church street, he walked out, while four-star was going in. And the movership heads of the woods said it's nice to see you again. And I didn't shake hands with them, not with them. He was a Lieutenant Commander in charge of our ship and, uh, he far still saw this. So, we saw what happened, you know. So, we drove, I don't know where we went after that. But, so, what happened? What happened to you in that daily captain? I said, he was a captain of the ship. I was all, I said, he didn't be dirty. He didn't make me back with the survivors. He said, he didn't have to be forced. He said, what's his name? And by gun forest, all wrote that down. I don't know whether it happened. But we did, we think about that. But he was very, uh, you wanted to know about that. Did he ever mention anything about, uh, the creation of the state of Israel? Did he ever hear any talk about that at all? Of course, at the time when I was ready, he was by himself, uh, or with his aid, which was, uh, and that was, now, the only thing that never happened, that I can't take your act out of this way, that'll come to me. But, in 44, which was, that forest won't give you a picture of himself. A normal picture. And he said, to Jack from Jim, he gave it to me. That was my husband's present. What happened then? You know it still? Did they be captain? And they were like killed here one day. And said, that picture don't belong to you. They're all about that picture. And that's at the table kind of nothing. And he took that picture, which actually never gave it. But you know, being a listed band, talking to a captain, you do what they tell you. But I never should have released that. I think what that you were today, was the color of the inscription to you, to Jack. You were. I'd say, I do his name. I know one time, we were printed this day, we kept it. But I would go get that ball of, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a? And we were concerned, sell the building, and he's say, there between you and Captain Soil, so I said he could help her try and they give that ball to the president. He said we'll see about that. So I don't know whether we're having to about that. Do you have anything that's hand-inscribed by Fort Stone? No, I don't think. By the time. We should say some stuff. Some scotch anyway. I think so. There's like a ball of scotch, do I? What would it tell you again on the years that you served with Fort Stone at the beginning and then you could play the ball? Do you think the secretary of the Navy, when you first met him, she had prepared it. They would make Secretary defend. Do you know anybody else that's still living in the New James Fort Stone? The captain of Red, who is the power that we've planned. Is he still living? He was actually living in Red. I'm thinking it's dead. But I don't see the goal. I was the listed man who had the grace. You know, you need to pay for that. Just like I can't think of that first class shoulders, David. Used to be. He's right. Speak, try her. Did you ever talk about any broken nose? You know, there's nose for some more flat. I can see it. This is played here today. There's a short character. And for that, did you claim that? It seemed like you always had the same suit. But you never changed. I mean, it always seemed like you was dressed in the same suit. I used to always wonder about that. How many suits do you have? I think you can reveal it since he's dead. Was he any kind of a womanizer? I know. I've heard he had a woman. I mean, shoveled her out. I knew we saw him. But if you had an unhappy marriage, you think maybe he might fool around with that power too. I think you're saying power is an after-doze yet. Women with Emma's, Emma's wife, woman with promotion, but he did back down that in your knowledge. Oh, he said that. David was empty, said that. Did you see me in there? I guess we come out. I was a grader. There, you know. I said, yeah. Something about that. I was wondering if something had it. What, you know what I mean? I said, he did that about three times. He didn't repeat it. He didn't let you go out. I thought, something boy is going on there. He said, yeah, he said, yeah. He said, I could have any one of them women that one is any one of their favorites. Something like that, you know. As long as I would help their husbands. They do anything in the world to get to husband and disadvantaged. And I think every one of them there was that in that book, that that quality. That's the last thing you remember, Mr. Forstall, saying to you, I'm the last time you spoke to Mrs. Forstall. Well, when you heard of his death, where were you? You remember exactly that? Well, I'll bake you a book. At the time you heard of his death, you were, oh my God. He's death, but how did you know that? That's the old adboncali's office. You could have said exactly where you were at the moment you heard about it. And what? You told you he died. Adboncali. That was the same time he was telling you to go somewhere else. You know, that's when you found out. Why did you think that was odd? Why didn't they go to just ship you out like that? No, I didn't because you made me sign a paper. Yeah, but they were talking to the whole, they had long lived up for me. They'd be sign it. You had to never talk about anything that happened to him. And he said to Secretary, I mean, that's how it was real. You had to take Kevin and Lieutenant and had this paper that made me sign it. Did Admiral Kelly had you sign it? Yeah. And Lieutenant Hooper could then and had the paper that said read it. And signed it. Now, signed it and dated it. How did Admiral Kelly spell his name? K-E-L-L-Y. And Hooper was spelled? Well, Hooper was his aide. Lieutenant. When you figured that was just a routine procedure that you had. You know, he didn't think you weren't suspicious of anything. Well, you were about 28 years old then or so. Even in the 40s, right? Yeah. How old were you even in? I guess about 20. I guess about 20. But, right, 1949, you were 2070. How was acting number-an-forced, all? Never knew too much. You stared it from the window. Yeah, played that spot. Just like the first time I met him, I told him I said, I think I told him to respect too much for me. I was about to have food. Yeah, I think we had two or three drinks over in Barker's Kitchen before I went to Mercy's Field. Have you ever heard anything since then about his death? Hope of anybody? You've already read it in newspaper accounts of the time. Not this day. So what do you think today happened? What do you say? Then why would you think he would commit suicide? Did he strike you as a sort of person? That was that eye-strong? Or did you tell him to flabbergast him the maze? Yeah. Or did you? Sure. You've never suspected anything? No, no. He never said anything to you that would make you think he might do that someday. Did you ever see him upset about anything? Nope. He was always cold. He was very strict about the corridors to somebody. I mean, he always seemed like it. He was on top of everything. He knows that. Have you known any other person in your life to commit suicide? No. So he wouldn't be able to compare it with him. It does seem like just the most amazing thing. Really? I mean, the guy like that. Wait, jump back to where you're right. How do you know that? You read that or someone told you that? Well, I did. Well, he told me that. Well, there was a bathroom, cord tied around his neck. And there's some speculation in the newspaper that he tried to hang himself to the radiator out the window. Which kind of thing? It seems like it's overdoing it. He was on the 16th floor. So just going out the window is going to kill you dead enough. You don't really need to hang yourself out the window. So that's enough to make people a little bit suspicious, I think, because what happens? Why is this bathroom cord tied tightly around his neck? Well, he's like a scrub of mudweds that something else could happen to him. Indeed. Yes. Yes. But other people express some suspicion. I know I have a friend who worked in the Pentagon, pretty high level, about your age. And he said that there was suspicion. Yes. As you're reading, I said, too. As you're reading, I said, you still read. And you still read? Yeah. Oh, you're joking. Yeah, I've worked, I happened to have this on the third of my bag. This was a, they got a copy of the report, a four-stall's death. And this was supposed to be his suicide note that he copied out of a book. And this is a copy of his handwriting. That's supposed to be his suicide note. This is his actual handwriting. It says here, where does it say the top? Psychotheria the Navy. It's sign James Worstone. You write the whole thing, you just sign it. You're going to open it. This is supposed to be his suicide note. Does that handwriting look the same to you? This is hard to read because it's a copy of the Xerox copy. But you can sort of see the slant of the letters you can see. You know the body can't be so much of handwriting? Yes, I do. I got this from the Truman Library. They sent, I put the both sheets on one sheet of paper, you can see it. This is clearly written by Mr. Worstone. There are lots of other rifles like that, sort of. Your book's all left hand, there's a lot of writings. You need to be an expert to see if you want to take a look at it. I did that for a living, pretty much all. I've already read it with the story document. Oh, okay, I'll always check this out. You don't have to be an expert, but not even a close. But you know what, if you get one of the qualified experts, get the eye guys. They've said the same thing, unofficial. I don't need the foster case. And experts can always just know that you got to get the right expert. There's some out of the same word. These guys have worked for the episode. Just don't seem the same. No, they're the same at all. No, I'm not even close. No, stop being close. Stop being close. So we suspected foul play because this is supposed to be a suicide note. What would I get in there and say, where are we going to talk to? Play for first time. You didn't get an expert tell me this is typical. I don't know, that's typical. I got several seats. That's what makes sure. So, oh, it is angry. Looks like that. Perhaps. I hope you heard me get an expert to say this the same thing. Yeah. I can, I can say to you everything I've written. If you would like to read. And I can see it. It's pretty shocking. You can always consider to the adverse circumstances. I know what you're going to say. And then I can't figure out where I heard something like foul play for the first time. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. We can't do it. But I was down to Cuba. I was down to one ten ball bay. So, I think somebody came down to Paris. Somebody came down and there would be about shopping. I can't remember what that was all about. Interviewed. It was a news person. I think somebody they would depart. Somebody they would depart. Which I had to find out what you knew about Forrest. Yeah. If anything was going on the last time I saw it there, you know. So, I have a sort of question for you. Yeah. What was that now? I mean, we're now going down to one ten ball bay. For me, after you got there. Yeah. Somebody came down and there would be a maybe person. I think somebody from the day we... You can keep that. That was a little bit... I heard that in the back top play. You got it. There's just spacious there. Well, they did an investigation. They took interviews of all the people that were there in the hospital that saw in the last few hours. The last few days up on the 16th floor of the Bethesda neighborhood hospital. It took them about five days to get all the testimony. Plus, they assembled all the medical records of the doctors and nurses, all the official stuff, prescriptions, whatever. And then, nothing happened. They didn't say what they discovered for another six months. Six months later, they just announced the spit, put out a small release and had like six points on it. And they concluded that four-starle had died from the fall. They concluded that no one associated with the Navy had any responsibility for that fall. And that he had been treated in the court with psychiatric rules and regulations and proper medical care would suggest that they should do. Otherwise, their hands were clean. But they did not conclude what caused the fall. And they never mentioned that court died around his neck in the official release. Furthermore, they didn't release all the supporting documentation. They didn't release the testimony the people that were there. That went in the drawer where it remained for 55 years until my third try, using the freedom of information I got it, released the whole thing virtually the whole thing. Everything, but they took the photographs of the room and the window where he went out and all that. They didn't release the photographs of the body with the stipulation it might cause too much pain and suffering for his survivors. But they also said I had like six weeks to register a protest to see if I can get that. Well, I did register a protest. It feels urgent actually. Because, I said he had most survivors. By that time, any family member who knew him was long dead, it was one grandchild. He had two children, Peter and, say, the old one was Peter at a drinking foam. The other one had a child. The other one died young, a heart attack. He never had a children. When Peter's wife was pregnant, Peter died. She's not a neighbor. She's a father or a grandmother. At the time, I was writing to the college student at CalP. The one survivor. But it seems like an ancestor. It's not like a loved one. I made that point with him. There's a descendant, but there's not a survivor. When they wrote back to him, we lost those photographs. We let's wrote the first time. Actually, we've lost those photographs of his body. If you say it's love, but that all of this taken together, what I'm telling you, is enough to make any reasonable person more than a little bit suspicious, I should think. Plus, of course, the contrasting handwriting of the nut. Plus, lots of other stuff. For the photographs of the scene in his room, it's supposed to be like a crime scene photograph. There's no bed spread on the bed. It's just a bare mattress. A bare pillow with no pillowcase. Nothing. He spoke the pipe. Did you recognize there's no evidence of a pipe, no book, nothing in the room? You couldn't tell that anybody had ever been in that room. Furthermore, the first person to see his room with the lights on and the nurse, said that the bed sheet would have turned back and it was broken glass on the bed. Well, the people here in the testimony have the photographs. Well, you say, there's never question. There's a wait a minute. Photographs don't bear out. For them, they're supposed to take the photographs as fast as they can. They're saying like a crime scene. He went out in the window about 2 a.m. You can look at the pictures and you can see the light is streaming in sunlight, is streaming in from a high angle. It's many of them, eight hours or more after. And they never asked this photographer, when did you take this photograph? They asked, there was another photographer who should have photographed the body. They asked him when he took the photographs. They did it very quickly, very expeditiously within about 30 minutes. But they never asked the guy who took the photograph like they know what, not to ask. They never asked him when he took those photographs. But you don't hardly have to ask because you can figure. It looks about 11 or 12, 11 a.m. It's well into the morning. So, John, I don't know what you keep this. You can't really, this is a poem that he was supposed to have copied. But maybe if you have something in your mind, because we think the Mr. Force always murdered. And he didn't confess it. I know people. I know it was murder. If you think about him being murdered, maybe something might come of your mind. You might remember something that could lend some light to the fact that he was murdered. So, I remember what you're talking about when this first dawned on me after I thought this over. The thing I couldn't have scraped my mind is why until you told me no to resign. I didn't know that. I thought he was still Secretary of Defense. But to be, I don't know when, but after I found out some of the information, what dawned on me is why the highest ranking first Secretary of Defense would be left alone at any time. We suspect that if he had something going on in his mind. Well, when they put him on the 16th floor, if you had something going on in his mind. That's right. When he put him on the first floor, why was somebody with him? Where I got this problem is it was supposed to be a nurse. And maybe nurse with him all the time, which she wasn't. Have you heard that? She was left alone. Well, maybe orderly, a male, not a female, who was supposed to be with him. That was what was in the newspapers that he had been left alone. And that's what they dealt with because law is a suspicion. How come they would leave him alone if he was suicidal? And that's old. You don't hear. It's still there in his way. That's what most of this report was designed to explain away. Why? Because that's a natural suspicion. And that's what they address. And in a very duplicitous way, like so. You get two or three different stories as to why he was left alone. And he's brother. Yeah, Henry, did you ever make Henry a little more stuck? You don't talk about him. You don't need to get all that into the book. Never talked about me, Dr. Proust. I never heard him. You know, it seemed like he was always beddness. He was always thinking about me. Oh, well, Proust had. I can't remember somebody in the car one day said something. That he was a most varnished man. He was a most varnished man that ever lived in the United States. But he had more than his mind. It could bring things in his mind, right? I mean it. But I can't remember who said that in his presence. But they were talking in the back, she's the car. But I have that was purchasing living in general, perishing. I don't know. I don't think so. I can't think so. If he was, but it seems like that raised the bill with the general perishing. But it was too open to back in the car. There was a high ranking army general. I don't know if that will, or any museum, not if it's him. But they were talking about forest all. And he said he had one of the most greatest minds. If anybody would give, they would never know. It was sent by the swarming. Whoever was at the end. That's, perishing brings the bill. It makes it a man to be reckoned with. I think it's a big day. Did he ever make any religious comments at all? Nothing. Didn't he give anything? He plays a Catholic. Yeah, he's raised Catholic. He's another one who needs to be a priest. But he'd sort of followed away from the Catholic church. He probably went to the Episcopal church if he went at all. I think. Well, this language was the, was he, uh, did he talk to the curse like a philhar? Or, you know, those very clean language. No, he was very clean. And for his island. I remember it just like the day we went in the Won't Go For Story. In the back part of the Won't Go For Story, you pulled in the, when the Pope was there, making the Prince your son. But in the forest, don't get down. What did you do to kiss his ring? You sing there, this is right there. And I would just stand there like a dummy. You know, I had a Catholic heart. They don't, they're called to our fore. But I wonder what was going on because I didn't know anything about this church. And the forest all come over. And it's playing to me about what was going on. And next time you see him, you should get down like everybody else. I believe, let him raise his voice about it. He just, just like you bestow on me, you know what to do. But I remember he was down. He kissed his ring finger or whatever. Well, I'd like to do that. I believe the more they kiss something else, they always wanted that too. I mean, when this first dawned on me, but it finally came to light. And by why? He was myself. There's a woman's list of bad news. If I was who was by mind, or anything I was in, they were, they were never leaving me alone. Here's the highest altar, the shepherd-cury defense. Okay, he's left alone like that. Something has to be wrong. Let me know. But he was killed. But you know, he can't think of anything. Or anybody that you thought was angry at him or for anything. You have a complaint about anybody? Never. You know, you'd be a little rough enough. You know, that's good for someone. He's not bad enough. I don't know what it was, how it'd be too dumb to, but he was very impatient. Don't you ever do anything for him or for a boy? What's he a witness? I don't know. I don't know. It was a witness. I don't believe what she might have been. I forgot. You told me something else was a witness. I can't remember. I had a witness. Oh, Michael Straits. Michael Straits' mother was a witness. He was a spy for the Soviet Union and the editor of the New Republic. It's a witness. Did you have a talk about communism? No. But I had a fire machine. Bishop Rolfinger, I should say. The old Bishop's ship was one of these most cut-to-deviser. Yeah, that's what it was. And who was it, Julia? He had very much respect for him. Rupa Stewart. Rupa Stewart, but this was a rabbi. That rabbi was the old Steve R. That rabbi was the old Steve R. That got picked both up, but one time. What was seen in the rabbi? What did you pick? Machine in the rabbi. It took some somewhere. We were leaking with him. Wasn't the rabbi look like, do you remember? I think you'd be. One day I would have had a record head of trade. Well, I could tell you later here. Yeah, it was just right now. He said, you know what I'm saying? You think, what if my husband had to do with my phone number two? My family told me what happened. My mother said, Kelly's attitude and his demeanor and so forth. Then he told you that he was, that he said, he killed himself, and he died, or what could he say? The thought of his wife, remember? When I was called over there, everything was rush, rush, that time. He said the secretary has committed suicide if I remember right. Through a standard newspaper account. And he would give me a choice of where he wanted to go. And then you'd tell him who for a cabine and had this roll out to be it. When we were shot and dated. And basically he said that that, I just said he wasn't supposed to talk about anything involving that. That's right, far. Get your wallet. Thank you for visiting with us. Yeah, I appreciate it. You know, very interesting. Yeah, I have written everything on the internet that I've written about it. And what I'll do is I'll print everything up that I've written and I'll mail it to you. I have your mailing address. Appreciate it. And you read all that. If anything comes to you, you know, you're getting in touch with me. You'll be amazed at the difference between what the public has told and what we found out about the cases. I did.